past a group of four riders yesterday on the oban-tydrum road that had been huckled by the force, i got blethering to them at the welly shortly after, it turned out only the last in the group got a ticket,(82mph)the explanation given was the gun cant distinguish who's who?
So the last one should go to court and say there were not doing that speed, it must have been one of the others, I cannot see how they can be prosecuted if the police cannot prove who was doing what
In Sussex they have prosecuted the whole group before on the basis one was speeding and they were all together. No idea if any contested successfully
Quite a few years ago I was out with 2 mates and we all got caught by one gun in Sussex. Strange thing was all our tickets said different speeds - 82, 83 and 84 (I got the 84 as I'm a hero ha,ha). At the end of the day it was a 60 and we were doing more than that so a fixed penalty it was. Not worth arguing with. I must admit, unless there's strange circumstances I'm not sure there's much to be gained from disputing tickets, and most that do seem to come off worse. If only the last rider got a ticket the others should consider themselves lucky and buy him a pint! If they get a reading they could quite easily prosecute as they can argue that they could spot any significant speed difference between riders - and I reckon the judge/jury would believe them.
I reckon that would depend upon how hard you want to fight it and how good your lawyer was. Plod can issue a fixed penalty any time they like, it is up to the recipient whether they accept it or not.
I'd heard of constabularies prosecuting whole groups before. Maybe Andy will chip in If it happened to me things I'd do are A) Some Googling to find out what is what and the general actions when this sort of event occurs B) Go and see a specialist lawyer on the legalities of it and what would be the chances in court C) Unless A) & B) turn up VERY good evidence of a fighting chance, swallow hard and just pay the fixed penalty (assuming your licence is reasonably clean already).
I went past a community speed watch trap the other week. Car in front showed on the display as 43 in a 30 so they noted down their reg. I then flashed up as 32 but they weren't looking at the display, they just noted my reg for the same speed. Cocking blind as a bat old people with anti bike rage.
In my much younger days I got done for speeding more times than I can remember. Back then i mistakenly thought points meant prizes. I must have tried every excuse / technicality / wasnt me officer trick in the book, all to no avail. At the end of the day if you want to dispute a speeding ticket you have to take it to court. Then in court you are faced with a 150 year old magistrate who has no legal qualifications at all and hates speeders with a vengeance. Regardless of what you say or present as evidence, it will be your word against the distinguished and experienced police officer and in my experience the old magistrate will always take the police officers word. Even if the evidence clearly shows otherwise. So, you will be still found guilty, but where the killer is, its no longer 3 points & a £100 fine, the magistrate can dish out what they want off the top of their head and never go by any guidelines. Once, I went to court for 71mph in a 60mph, wish would have normally have just been 3 points. The magistrate after dismissing all the evidence which showed that my bike hadnt passed as many markings as the officer had claimed, dished out a penalty of 8 points. The clerk of the justice pointed out that was a bit harsh as I was only slightly over the speed limit and that normally would be just 3 points. The magistrate grumbled and moaned and in the end dropped the penalty to 5 points and a huge fine.
the fella wasn't overly fussed, don't think he was gonna take it any further. he was the oldest in the group by a country mile, maybe thought he should of known better :smile:. he was saying he had been way over the ton catching the group up just a mile previous. could of been a lot worse.
When it comes to riding in a group, if I am leading I mention to the others that I intend to ride as fast or as slow as I think fit but each person is entirely responsible for themselves. If somebody follows my lead and ends up getting a ticket, don't blame me!
only saw the one on the way home yesterday,, and he was "doing business" with a Merc when i passed,,, ( there but for fortune )
When we are out in a group we sort of have some unwritten rules lol. 30mph and 40mph limits to be kept to. 50mph limits.......................use your common sense................................national speed limits are fair game. On the rare times we have to use a motorway, always stay below 100mph (instant ban for being over). Whoever is riding shotgun can expect to be pulled, if indeed anyone does pull us.
It's not to bad here, le flic have stopped me twice lately ,was well over the limits , but not taking the piss speeds ,both times let me go after a lecture and told me if he caught me again I will get a ticket.
My brother got nabbed for a rider in front of (out of eye-shot) and part of their group, who ran wide on a left hander into an oncoming car. They all got done as "Joint Venture" for riding without due care. They were offered a rider improvement lecture or a court appearance.
Do you mean "joint enterprise"? If two or more people set out together knowingly intending to commit a crime, all of them may be held liable for any offence committed by any one of them. Thus, if one of a group of burglars commits a murder during the burglary, they are all guilty of murder; the prosecution does not have to prove which one did it, only that one of them must have done it. That is what joint enterprise means. I cannot see how joint enterprise can arise in any offence of carelessness or negligence. The deliberate intention to commit a criminal act at the outset is an essential precondition. Of course if the police only wanted them to accept a lecture, the threat of prosecution may have just been hot air.
It would be very interesting to know if the rider improvement course or court appearance was offered in a written form ? Bearing in mind what Pete1950 has posted.
