Greetings Earthlings Can I ask the hive mind for some help with diagnosing an issue on a friend's 2003 1000DS? We were touring Scotland last summer when the front cylinder stopped firing completely. We tried what we could (plugs, etc.) by the side of the road but had to give up in the end and call in RAC rescue. The bike was recovered back to Ducati Glasgow who diagnosed a failed coil and replaced the coil with a new one. They also fitted new spark plugs. This however did not fix the issue. They started to try to remove the tank but could not, due to the ethanol swelling issue (not sure how they changed the coil if they couldn't get the tank off, unless they got to it from underneath the headstock?). At this point it was starting to get expensive at main dealer labour rates so my friend asked them to stop and collected the bike from them and brought it home. The bike has sat in disgrace in a corner of his garage since then. Now, I had a 2003 Multistrada for 6 years or so, and recall I spent a fair bit of time sorting starting/running issues out (or paying Ducati John to, anyway), so I have taken the bike off him as a temporary project to have a look and see if I can get it back up and running again. The bike has done about 24,000 miles and is in a bit of a sorry state with usual corrosion, swollen tank, etc., though at some point someone has spent money on it and had some fun along the way (DP seat, Termi pipe, full luggage, longer sidestand, centrestand kit, USB socket, French stickers, etc.). So, I'm working on the basis that if I can sort the running issue (and maybe the tank too) and give it a bit of a clean up and maybe a service too, it can be a decent bike again before I hand it back. Reading around the forums it would seem that most common causes might be: Failed coil Plugs Injector relay - see below Corrosion on the back of the ECU? (can't remember where I read this) Issue with the power wire into the coil - check continuity/corrosion, etc. Injector - failed, blocked, water in fuel? Crankshaft position sensor. Is there anything I've missed? A couple of things I think can be eliminated or I have tried: Coil - can consider this eliminated as there is a new coil fitted? Plugs - ditto Injector relay - I'm not buying this as the one relay serves both injectors, so surely it would stop both cylinders firing, rather than just one? As a first step, however, I have swapped the headlight relay over with the injector relay. I did get the bike to run, but still only on one, so I think it's not that. Wiring coming out of the ECU - this has been chopped about - there are four wires that have electrical tape on them on each side (see photos below). I am guessing that it had an alarm fitted at some time which has been removed. This could well be an issue causing the problem. I think that doing a continuity test might be a good idea, so any hints, tips or tricks appreciated. Lastly - is there anything that I can gain from onboard diagnostics? I seem to remember that there is a way of pulling up error codes through the dash, but I can't remember how to do this. I have almost managed to get the tank off, but it's being stubborn an I can't get the fuel pump flange past the rear horizontal frame rail. Will keep trying though. Many thanks in anticipation. Cheers James
Update: thoughts I’d cracked it for a moment there when I found the power input cable/connector to the horizontal coil flapping in the breeze under the headstock. Connected it up and…. nothing. Ah well, false hope. On the subject of the tank, I read somewhere that if you drain them and vent them they may eventually shrink back a little. Don’t know if this is pure unadulterated bollocks or not though. Is there an easy way to drain the tank in situ? I don’t think there is a drain line on it if memory serves me. The two lines that exit below the tank above the vertical cylinder are just vents/drains for the fuel filler area (and yes, the drain is blocked). Cheers
Usually removing the fuel pump bolt which fouls the cross member is enough to get the tank off, I had to be pretty forceful with my DS tank to get it off, once off, I ground a small piece out of the cross member to make it easier in future. Is there a spark on either of the front plugs when turned over?
I have heard it mentioned that they shrink, no experience of it myself though. Are the plugs wet after cranking?
shrinking a large tank like ours (1000DS etc) takes some real dedication and particularly time - if you empty it and put it somewhere which is constantly warm to hot then it will slowly reduce in size back to std but most people wouldn't tolerate the unavoidable wafting of fumes in the house during this time. Hold down the 'A' key on the dash as you turn the ignition on. Then you should see the dash scroll through the error codes. Error codes are: 1.1 Throtlle Position Sensor (TPS) short-circuit to battery + 1.2 Throtlle Position Sensor (TPS) short-circuit to ground 2.1 Oil pressure sensor short-circuit to battery + 2.2 Oil pressure sensor short-circuit to ground 3.1 Oil temperature sensor short-circuit to battery + 3.2 Oil temperature sensor short-circuit to ground 4.1 Air temperature sensor short-circuit to battery + 4.2 Air temperature sensor short-circuit to ground 5.1 Battery HI 5.2 Battery LO 7.1 Fuel sensor short-circuit to battery + 7.2 Fuel sensor short-circuit to ground 10.1 Horizontal cylinder coil short-circuit to battery + 10.2 Horizontal cylinder coil short-circuit to ground 11.1 Vertical cylinder coil short-circuit to battery + 11.2 Vertical cylinder coil short-circuit to ground 12.1 Injector 1 short-circuit to battery + 12.2 Injector 1 short-circuit to ground 13.1 Injector 2 short-circuit to battery + 13.2 Injector 2 short-circuit to ground 16.0 Fuel pump relay open circuit 19.1 Starter solenoid short-circuit to battery + 19.2 Starter solenoid short-circuit to ground 21.1 Stepper motor short-circuit to battery + 21.2 Stepper motor short-circuit to ground 21.3 Stepper motor open circuit 30.0 Generic ECU error 34.0 Signal panel (sensor discovery) 36.0 Speed (sensor discovery) 37.0 Immobilizer (key / transponder not found) 37.1 Immobilizer (antenna discovery) 37.2 Immobilizer (instrument panel serial driver) 37.3 Immobilizer (serial cable disconnected) 37.5 Immobilizer (key not acknowledged) 37.6 Immobilizer (immo virgin - ECU progr.) 38.0 Can line
1/ Do you have a spark at the sparkplug? 2/Do you have fuel/fuel smell/wet plug when plug removed immediately after cranking?
Thanks, yes, it does seem to be hanging on one particular fuel pump bolt, so taking that out will probably help. Good shout on grinding out a bit of cross member for future tank removals! I've only had one plug out and tested for spark (he RH one) and gave no sign of life. I'll try the other one as well, just to be sure. Many thanks James
Perfect, thanks for the error codes Chris. Re venting the tank, I'll have a think about that. I live on my own so no one to tell me I can't keep it in the house, but I think even I might get sick of the fumes! If (IF) we get some warm weather before the end of the summer it might do OK in the shed though. Many thanks James
Hi Chris, I've only tested the one plug so far (RHS) and there was no spark. I did, however get a gout of something shoot out of the plug hole which I assume was petrol! I concluded from that that a) the injectors are probably OK and b) I should probably have covered the hole with a rag or something (though wary of something getting sucked in). Am going to try that again though and check it was fuel. Also look at the plugs after cranking with them in. Many thanks James
so that's a step in the right direction already, and you can either swap coils just to confirm although I think you said it's a different coil already? The front one gets all the elements due to being in the firing line(npi) and the steel bodies corrode and de-laminate badly. You can also check that it's getting a supply with a meter but after that it's carefully checking output pins from ECU and unfortunately ECU itself. I am a bit rusty, but feel certain that as you said, the small relay that plays up regularly must supply both ignition circuits, otherwise there would be two of them logically.
what engine ECU is fitted? the later models use.... cant remember the part number. one of them is prone to coil driver faults which will cause one cylinder to go down. v,common fault.
Thanks Chris, yes Ducati Glasgow fitted a new coil to the front and four new plugs but it still doesn’t run on the front. I’ve managed to get the tank off it tonight and tested the input to the coil. I’m getting about 2 volts on the brown/white wire and nothing on the grey/blue. What should I be seeing, 12V? Or is the output from the ECU reduced? If it should be 12 then maybe the ECU is toast. No idea where I would find one of them… Thanks James
Do you know where I would find the ECU model? There is a label on it which says “MTS1000DUCATI031”, though I suspect that isn’t what I need to know. I haven’t yet taken the ECU off, but would the model be printed on the back of it (i.e. the side which faces the heat sink)? Thanks James
iaw5? cant remember. it's basically a fiat punto ecu. they failed all the time with a po351? error. it's been a long time. i know of at least one person on here that i talked through the diagnosis. (i aint no ducati expert) looks like this.
hopefully Chris W picks this thread up as knows this information inside out but sadly has stopped doing a lot of refurbishment/supply now, basically if you carefully search through the stickers on the ECU, sometimes you have to carefully half peel a narrow sticker off to reveal - there are two different IAW numbers, (HW 103/HW610) and if yours is the later number then you have a much better chance of getting it second hand and also re-flashed to suit your immobiliser or you could have your immobiliser totally removed even.
As above, join the above group and ask a guy called Muiriey, he's uk based and a very knowledgeable guy on the older air cooled bikes.
