The European External Action Service (EEAS), run by the unelected Baroness Ashton, who is one of Tony's cronies. It has 140 overseas delegations with 3417 staff and costs over £420 million per year. 29 EEAS officials earn a basic salary of over £150k and a senior diplomat on £114k only pays about 15% in tax. It is estimated that 500 EEAS officials earn more than our PM's basic salary. It runs about 650 cars for the use of staff. It is slowly but surely replacing national embassies and consulates and competes with our own Foreign and Colonial Office. All of it is outside of democratic accountability, like the rest of the EU Commission, and acts on it's own agenda given that national governments often can't agree on foreign policy. Now that is what I call froth, with marshmallows
Just one question how come without democratic accountability. You select EU government in a vota just like UK one. Then they select their "helpers" on their own rules.
If that is the case who voted for the head of the European parliament, i live in the UK and a part of Europe, and subject to their rules etc, at which point was he voted in, i must have missed the election??? It takes up weeks of TV and in the papers when we have an election, so surely there must have been days and weeks of political broadcasts from all the member states to put their candidate forward for us to vote on???? was i asleep? Or did it just happen behind closed doors and we now live with the consequences? Can of worms, possibly. There are loads of these on the net, My favorite A little one sided, but having watched a couple, they don't like us very much, i i am ok with that.
The UK mindset has always been that the UK is an island and not really part of Europe. It doesn't want to get involved in Europe. It has no interest in other languages or cultures. With that as a starting point, there is little media coverage of what goes on in Brussels. The UK electorate is woefully uninformed, and the UK takes as little part in the democratic process as possible. It prefers to sit on the sidelines and whinge. So yes, what goes on probably is undemocratic, because it is not subject to the glare of the media whose job it is to inform. This is, I assume, because consumers of media have no interest in the subject. Consequently you have Farage and his cronies, like worms in an apple, trying to destroy the thing from the inside. It is unsurprising that he manages to undermine any goodwill Brussels might have for the UK. That's his aim. Then he can say "told you so".
We vote for MEP's. The Commission, which drafts all legislation, is run by unelected nominees from member states. The MEP's rubber stamp the work of the Commission.
So why not give the people of the UK a vote on whether to remain within the EU ? Would democracy give the wrong answer ? And if so to whom ?
Similar to how you vote for "PM" in UK is it not? You select a party, they select the leader. You do not vote for your PM you are stuck with a guy/women you like or you do not. On local level you also vote for party who often select rullng bodies on their own. Mayor of London is one of very few examples in UK where you elect a mayor as well. Commission can be selected however they want as their new rules/regulations still need to be voted in/out, agreed by MEPs in almost all cases. Brief description: What do MEPs do? I do not believe a referendum on in/out is valid. People in UK seem to me to be more interested in who is going to be in next "I am a Celebrity", X factor or BB then who runs the show in UK, EU, how they do it and how we can influence it.
No it isn't like how we voter for the PM in the UK. The President of the EU in nominated by the European Council and rubber stamped by the MEP's. The Commission is comprised of nominees from each member state who are allocated jobs by the President. The MEP's then get to rubber stamp the Commission in its entirety after much horse trading. It is all a bit of a stitch up, non of those in positions of real power are directly elected by the people of Europe, not one. It reeks of cronyism and top politicians lining themselves up for a return of favours at some point in the future. It is the ultimate triumph of the political class who select and promote their own. Why would a referendum of the people of the UK not be valid ?
I do not believe a referendum on in/out is valid. People in UK seem to me to be more interested in who is going to be in next "I am a Celebrity", X factor or BB then who runs the show in UK, EU, how they do it and how we can influence it.[/QUOTE] That is your opinion but I disagree. Let us have a referendum and then hopefully move forward one way or the other. If some people dont care enough to vote then shame on them but at least those of us that do care will take part. Same as general elections really.
You keep saying "rubber stamp", and I sense a hostility behind it. Were you attacked by a rubber stamp when you were young? For myself, I enjoyed using my rubber stamps early on in my career and was sorry when computerisation largely deprived me of that pleasure. Everything you describe concerning how power is brokered and enacted in Europe seems to have an analogue within UK politics. They don't sound like terribly different systems. I mean, people vote for their politicians who then appoint people to carry out the work in various ways. Horse trading takes place - just like UK or US politics. You must never hold a referendum on any meaningful issue unless you are absolutely certain that the great unwashed will vote the right way. I'm sure you know this already, though
The difference is that in the UK and every modern democracy the leader is elected by the people, everyone who sits at the cabinet table in Number 10 has been elected. That does not happen in the EU. The real power is the Commission non of whom are elected. They are appointed by a self serving political class. And yes, I do use the term 'rubber stamp' in a pejorative way.
So once appointed, the President of the EU suffers no oversight by MEPs, cannot be removed except on the say-so of the European Council and is in most respects a despot? No? In the UK, we vote people into office. Once voted, these elected politicians employ and appoint people to get things done. The politicians don't do all the work themselves, they have munchkins to do the routine stuff. A bit like with Europe. A question or two - how many Prime Ministers have we had who were not leaders of their respective parties at the start of that session of Parliament? Any recent examples? Were these "leaders" elected by the voters into the leadership role?
In the UK anyone appointed by an elected representative is subservient to that representative. In the EU it is the appointed Commission that rules the roost. The answer to you question is Gordon Brown, who took over mid term, he then lost at the next general election. So your point was ?
John but he did not loose he resigned. His party did not win but had enough power (numbers) to keep him in play if they wanted to. No no MP in UK is elected by people. They are elected by politician mates.
Rules "the roost"? You mean, the EU? Like the Head of the Civil Service rules the Civil Service, you mean? I didn't vote Bobby Kerslake into that role, should I blame the EU? And MEPs, the elected representatives of the people, have no say in who the President of The EU is, or what he does whilst in office? Doesn't sound very democratic to me? Might as well get rid of the MEPS all together, for all the use they are. We were talking about elected leaders, if I recall correctly. Why, what were you talking about?
The Civil Service implements policy. The EU Commission writes law. My point exactly. The MEP's are there just to provide a veneer of respectability. They know their place.
I am getting that feeling I get when someone is only telling me a half-truth and when they are spinning things up. Do UK politicians write law? Or do they appoint unelected subject-matter specialists to do so on their behalf - just as MEPs do in the EU.
I presume this is a joke, John (if I may so address you). You know perfectly well that in the UK we have an unelected head of state, an unelected upper chamber of parliament, unelected judges, and a whole raft of unelected Chief Constables, Permanent Secretaries, Chief Executives, etc etc. The head of government, cabinet ministers, and the rest of the government are never directly elected; some but not all of them are elected as MPs but never as ministers. It is hilarious that you refer to various EU office-holders as "unelected", when the EU is, again as you well know, vastly more democratic in all its institutions than the UK has ever been.
