Got a mate in sister hotel that is having a rather interesting issue with few things that staff member has raised. Now company official stanse will be to defend them self and not tell anyone else if they are right or wrong at the end. Since about 3-4y a standard for contract of employment in hotels is that you get paid xxxx amount per year for 40h per week. Full time employment. Now there is a disclaimer there that overtime is included in basic pay. Now as much as it sucks hey those are the times now. It in short means no overtime pay for salaried people. Now no idea what was the situation in the other hotel that sparked it off but from what I can gather staff member got pissed off about hours. About fact she is doing those hours when hotel fully knows it will have to mean overtime for her (one that is not paid and clearly planned). It is not a sudden one off day like that. Hotel just does not want to pay overtime to people on hourly contract or employe another person. What happened is they changed her hours after 9 months of work from 4x10h/3off to 5x8h/2off and now expect her to still stay 10h every day or more to just finish basic work. That is easy 10h a week. First off all would that not be breatch of contract on employer side? Even if contract states shifts (not specyfing hours or days) after doing something for 9 months there should be a official notice of change right? They are trying to justify that it is her responsibility to finish her duties on time however she is saying that some of the duties she has cannot be completed within shift pattern she works 16:00-00:00 as people she needs to interact with to do it work 07:00-15:00. She claims that it is company failing on providing the necessary tolls to complete the job and she does not want to do planned overtime. Now as in contract it states shifts they say they can change hours and she agreed to overtime. This is jsut my curiosity now so want to know: I was thinking by opting out of 40h week it is still your choice to do overtime and I would think that putting someone to work with overtime without their outhorisation is also not correct, maybe not legal? Especially if it is planned, premediated adn not paid no matter what contract says? Can one retract the opt-out of hours and can one just say no do not want to do overtime and what can company do?
I'd expect you to get a better response to this from something like the Moneysavingexperts forum on employment ? Work & Benefits - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums
You are correct there but then again on that forum know no one so will not be able to judge how much they honestly know. Here I can. Worst case scenario there I would be talking my for example head of my HR on a hunt.... you never know with my luck
Your friend has got two choices, either stay employed or get another job. The Hotel industry is rife with dodgy contracts of employment and believe me there are thousands of foreign workers who will take her job on a Zero hour contract for basic minimum wage. They will have written in their original contract of employment that a review can be given at any time ( normally after 3 months) to legally allow the change of contract for either money value or time. If this clause is in the contract then I am afraid he ain@t got a pot to piss regarding a tribunal in breach of contract. I have now clocked up some 22 years in the Hotel industry and employment rights are a tough cookie to crack with big corporate names.
I have done my time as well but just never took as much attention to this until now. She is not my friend, she just works in a sister hotel where my mate works and he brought the subject up as general discussion. When we were thinking about it a good analogy to situation is concierge employed 3am to 11am. Part of daily task go to shop at 10:00 to buy papers for guest where shop opens at 10:00, trip takes 30min . After x months of employment they change your hours of work to 2am till 10am. Yet they still tell you have to go get papers, you are to in essence do it in your free time and it will be your fault if you do not. No idea legal side but it looks fishy to me. There must be something wrong there!?
Why cant you get papers before 10? Surely newsagents are open before then. When your hours change to not enable you to fetch them at usual time then your friend should be discussing collecting them at 9 so they are ready for guests?
I used to work as a manager in one of big restaurant chains and salaried deputy managers were always screwed - not earning as much as store managers but also not getting paid for overtime like shift managers. You always end up doing overtime not to mention that your salary was based on 45 hours per week! It sucked but nothing you could do about it. That being said 'm pretty sure it's illegal to be on e.g. 2am-10am shift and then expect to do a task which you cannot do before 10am. I would just say 'f*ck off, I've just finished.' Surely it can be raised with hotel manager and they fail to resolve it go to HR. HR departments in many big companies are pretty good - at the end of the day they don't want you to sue them so if you have a genuine reason for a complain they should help you.
Yep I heard it all before................. I know many hotels that employ Housekeeping staff that get paid only an eight hour shift. Before the recession they were cleaning 14 rooms in that eight hour work time, now they are forced to clean 16-18 rooms in the same period of time knowing full well that the standard has to be the same and all the cleaners I know end up doing between 30-45 mins every day free to finish of their quota. Still there are loads of EU people who are willing to earn money if they quit, also if you break down the hours they complete the work in the Hotel in essence does not pay the Legal minimum wage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Iceman, hospitality you work any hours that are needed. Next time you in hotel ready to shout think about it .... Ducbird concierge thing is just a invented example to show the problem. It is not as much about overtime pay but rather what Iceman said. You finish at 10am so is it legal for them to expect you every day to do overtime knowing full well without you will not be able to finish the job. As for me it then clearly stops being overtime and becomes your normal work hours. That is change of contract without notice? Ducbird for you there must be things in your store that you cannot do till it is closed right? So imagine this you are employed to work only till closing time and one day they give you new task to job description asking to do one of those tasks that can only be done after store closes. No changes to hours, pay nothing.
To be honest Luca we have labour matching which has to be agreeable to both parties and we get a change of hours contract so it doesn't happen to us. All work can be done at most times so no nothing over runs and if one person cant do it the next shift can. Luckily I work for a good company But I do know that salaried workers have some sort of overtime included in that salary. Many managers have to fill any hours that have no worker to fill it but I am aware that they can get time in lieu What you have to be careful is that overtime doesn't bring you into minimum wage which is why I linked you because your friend needs to make sure that they still have a good hourly rate
I cant help but that sounds pants. I work 12 hour shifts and am a shift manager. we are expected to do shift handovers at out finish time. I just put my coat on and go home. if the next shift doesnt come in early they dont get it. and incidentally when i start my shift I sit in my car til 1 minute to and then go in. our big managers just take the piss and I now wont spend a minute longer there then I have to. luckily we are contracted for 12 hours.. ..and 12 hour days are long enough and that doesnt include travelling time to and from. .
I've worked part time and 2 of my colleagues full. Suddenly I got half of the full times woman work dumped on me . Yet she stayed full and me part. I then moved departments with this work load and worked with another lad. He being full time. They laid him off but the union said due to him being laid off for financial reasons nobody could do his work do his work for 2 years under the same title. 2 years passed and I get called into the office and guess what !!!! Now I have got most of his work dumped on me as well . No extra pay no extra hours . Just got quoted aload of under section blah blah !!! I'm really angry. I'd kill to work full time But they keep me at part time and so far dumped 2 people's work on me . At the moment I've had it But I need to keep a roof over our head and feed everyone and of course keep the Dukes lol !
In the current climate basically if your in a job with lots of other people qualified to do or can do there is always some one behind you wanting to fill your shoes and they know it! Therefore especially in hospitality your disposable I'm afraid There's always someone who will do more work for less money breathing down your neck .
Do you work full time hours then? I fail to understand how a company can insist on hours being worked outside of contract except in exceptional circumstances. Being on managers contracts I've had my fair share of discussions re contract saying 37hrs or as required to do the job but if that is more, consistently, than 37 there has to be a right to appeal somewhere. What can they do if you turn up and leave on time?!
This is my point the consistent bit and the expectation that you have to do overtime. I was under impression that if it is consistent then at one stage you could claim it is your normal working hours not OT and demand payment? No idea what would happen if you were to com and leave on time I guess they would try go down route of competency as you are unable to finish the job. That brings us full circle to why you are unable and it is because task needed doing that is failed is outside your normal working hours.
They could leave and go for constructive dismissal, having obviously spoken to the employer about their concerns first. I suspect but am not nor proclaim to be any form of expert..
Possible. Am curious what will happen there. Thing is if employer backs down there is precedents for anyone else right, if they loose in ET guess as well so I doubt employer will even consider those two options.
There is no requirement under UK law for hours of work to be defined in a contract of employment. However if it is not included, it should be referenced in the statutory written statement (often covered by employee handbooks). In the situation described above the employee's actions should be as follows: To find out her typical hours of work, she should request this from HR, if they are unwilling to give it she has the right to ask for it via an Employment Tribunal. Even if it is not what she expects she needs something in writing before going any further. If she is unhappy with anything, she should speak to her line manager, if this doesn't address the issue she should talk it through with HR, if she is still not happy she should follow the companies disputes procedure and only after these avenues have been exhausted should she go to an ET. As far as total hours worked per week and the law is concerned this is covered by the Working Time Directive. Your employer is not allowed to make you work more than 48 hours per week (except in certain jobs or conditions, eg time of war). You can choose to opt out of this 48 hour week, this must be documented. Once you have opted out you can rescind the opt out at anytime by giving your employer suitable notice.
exactly what I was going to say next best option is to claim stress and get signed off and find another job
