I believe I’ve solved the soft back brake and front brake issues that can affect some MTS1200 with ABS. The highest point of the back brake circuit is the ABS control unit, located under the riders seat. The bleed nipple on the front brake is the highest point in the hydraulic circuit. Using some parts from Louigi Moto near Bristol ([email protected] or 01761 453366) I’ve modified the ABS control unit. I was discussing my theory with the main man there about air getting trapped on the lines to the ABS actuator / motor and he agreed that they could trap air. I offered to pay, but being the kind soul that he is he gave me two Ducati clutch banjo bleed bolts with nipples. As used on Ducati slave cylinders. Note: the Banjo bolt is identical in thread length, fluid hole size etc (not visible in photo), however it has a bleed nipple. Having put rags all around the ABS unit and covered the battery I carefully undid the front banjo (controls rear circuit), fully expecting a deluge of brake fluid everywhere. No, not a drop. This worried me as I started doubting how the system works…may be pneumatic or something else! Proceeded to replace the banjo bolt with the recently acquired part. Bled the system, back brake now perfect feel. No spongy feeling, just have to see how it test rides. The image above shows the process 1/2 way through with the back brake circuit modified. Repeated with front and now I have a proper Ducati brake system similar in feel to the 998S (which is Brilliant). Note again this had no fluid visible. Just look at how much air is in the fluid in this front brake circuit. I had been bleeding the initial air out for about 20 squeezes before taking this image. For the record the motorcycle is a 2010 MTS1200S ABS with 24,700 miles. Both circuits previously bled to Ducati workshop method at 23,800 miles. So get your hands on some Ducati Slave banjo bolts / bleed nipples and caps. Whole process took under 30 minutes. The grey sausage thing is the extra fuel tank for my ScotOiler. Feed back please. Patent applied for, my advice may contain nuts. Not suitable for adults under sixteen. AndyW please add to your wonderful website if you feel it is worthy.
I think I need to try this out as soon as possible. I've got no complaints about the front brake but the back one is simply non existent. The back brake was poor when I bought the bike new last August so I asked the dealer to have a look at it and fit any upgraded parts to get it working and they assured me that because it was new it had everything done already. 5k miles on and it won't even hold the weight of the bike on a moderate slope :frown: It's due an annual service soon so I might take the lazy approach of asking them to do it for me when it's in there.
I've been thinking about this same idea for a long time, i.e. fitting bleed nipples to the ABS control unit, but never got around to trying it. Thanks AirCon for doing the experiment. I shall definitely follow your example.
Aircon, I might be missing something but looking at the images, do the new bleed nipples / banjo bolts have the same holes in the body sides (just above the lower thread) as do the original bolts? I cant see them on the photos and obviously if they are not there, the fluid flow to and from the ABS pump will be non existent. I know being banjos they should be of course just that i cant see them. That the lack of flow would certainly account for a firmer feel to the brakes as the fluid has nowhere to travel to / from. If they are there then ignore my stupidity and everything I have just written and nice job. Have you road tested the mod yet? and if so how does it feel?
I'm watching this with interest. My rear had the Ducati mod done plus another 2 bleeds by dealer, it's now u/s. Bike on m/stand - heel firmly on r/brake pedal for maximum pressure and you can spin the back wheel with ease. A VOSA issue if ever there was one. I know that's been mentioned in earlier posts. Also if in a worst case accident scenario your pride and joy was involved in an RTC (crash) Plod would check the brake systems on your vehicle! The words of a Ducati dealer saying, "they're all like that Sir" won't cut it in court. Regardless which vehicle is at fault.
A couple of months ago I tried bleeding my rear brake at the ABS block by loosening the banjo ( with a rag wrapped round them), pushing the pedal down, tightening the banjo then releasing the pedal. It made bugger all difference. It might work better with proper bleed nipples so I've ordered a pair of banjos with bleed nipples to give them a go.
I might have another go at mine with the vacuum bleeder I've got somewhere in the garage but if putting a bleed nipple on the banjo by the ABS block works I'll be either doing it myself or getting it dome when the bike goes in for a service. Has anyone got a part number for those banjo bolts?
Yes they do have exactly the same size hole, I just didn't pose the banjo for the photo. it was more of a 1/2 way through photo. I was aware of this and was worried about flow.
That's a vacuum bleeder you see in the photo. In the end I did manually first, then with the vacuum machine once I adapted another bleed kit part so it fitted better.
Please post up here someone. You'll need the banjo bolt, bleed nipple, rubber cover and two new copper gasket seals to make a proper job.
Test Ride - Heathrow - Newlands - Box Hill and then back , 95% A/B roads at a brisk pace. Front brake - brilliant as mentioned already. Impossible to pull to the bar and makes ABS activate if you grab a hand full. Rear brake - much better, but still pi$$ poor, but I believe this is more to do with pad / disk chain grease/oil contamination. It is no longer possible to end stop the brake lever, which I could always do before, even after I'd done an up side down rear caliper bleed. As soon as I get my "year end" done, clear these service calls I going to clean up the disk and replace the pads. Expect more to follow over the weekend.
AirCon - Year end? At the end of July? I know you work near Heathrow - you don't work in Bedfont Lakes do you? Just finished my year end and that's where I work..... Same place maybe?
Bedfont Lakes....I know a very nice young lady who works down there. Kayla. Anyway my year end in Dec 31; just not ready for chartered accountant yet.
Aircon, This looks a pretty brill' solution, which I may well have a go at myself, after I see what occurs with my Multi' after it's annual service @ Riders in Bristol this coming Friday. The rear brake issue hasn't been 'major' with me, yet, but either way, the bike should be terrific after the service, let's see what happens!! Great idea.
Nice job Aircon, You beat me to it, as I was going to post a similar theory on the ABS unit. :wink: I have been trying to sort my rear brake which, despite repeated bleeding has never been much use. The last time I tried to fix it I bled it several times and deglazed the pads, but still no real use, so I decided to test my theory about air in the ABS unit; Took more of the rear pipework fixing off until I had enough loose hose to lift the rear caliper up above the ABS unit - in fact I suspended it from a beam in the garage with zip ties and managed to get it up to head height. Then I weighted the brake pedal down to compress the fluid in the system, and left it over night. Next day went out and bled again, and got loads of air out, so I think I managed to shift an air lock from the ABS unit. Brake has been much better ever since, with very little travel before it kicks in (although still can't trigger the ABS on the rear). I need to deglaze the pads again as in an earlier attempt I took too much slack out of the lever to master cylinder rod and made the brake bind. :frown: Even though I don't have a brilliant back brake, at least I'm now confident it will pass an MOT (due in Sept), and I don't think it would have had a chance of doing so before. I think I'll probably do your modification though, as it will be much easier in the future to go that route rather than having to lift the rear caliper up so high.
my bikes booked in with Snells in a few weeks, will have to ask if its a mod that a main dealer would do onsite
