‘Triumph to ‘focus’ on Moto2, MotoGP ‘a whole different ball game’ | MotoGP | Feature (crash.net) Triumph to ‘focus’ on Moto2, MotoGP ‘a whole different ball game’ Peter McLaren 23 Dec 2022 MotoGP grid slots, Triumph was spoken of as a possible candidate alongside the likes of BMW and Kawasaki. The British manufacturer already has a presence in the grand prix paddock courtesy of its exclusive deal as Moto2 engine supplier, which began in 2019 and has been extended until at least 2024. But was Triumph ever tempted by the surprise MotoGP opportunity? “Well, I mean in terms of budget, that is a whole different ball game,” Triumph chief product officer Steve Sargent told Crash.net. “And it's not really just about the budget to actually go racing, it's about the amount of R&D spend and the R&D effort that has to go in behind that. “So our focus at the moment is on Moto2, Supersport and going into Motocross and Enduro.” Keith Huewen: My rider of the year? It can be only one person… Norick Abe’s son gets World Supersport seat for 2023 Valentino Rossi becomes BMW M Motorsport ‘works driver’ What does Triumph get from Moto2? The grand prix classes feature exclusive technical suppliers in areas such as tyres, fuel and electronic components, but Moto2 - which replaced 250cc in 2010 – is unique in using a single engine supplier. Lightly-modified Honda CBR600s powered the Moto2 grid from 2011 to 2018 before Triumph arrived in the paddock with its 765cc triple. So what was the attraction? “Our expectation was to demonstrate what Triumph is capable of as a company, particularly as an engineering and R&D capability,” Sargent said. “I think a lot of people know Triumph historically as maybe a bit more of a classic bike brand, but quite clearly we have other segments that we're also very actively involved in. 00:0002:33 Keith Huewen: My rider of the year? It can be only one person… Exclusive: Cancelled laps for breaching MotoGP tyre pressures in 2023 “It was about trying to create awareness of what we're capable of in terms of developing performance engines and the reliability of the engineering that sits behind it. Moto2 is really a great opportunity and a great vehicle for being able to do that. “In countries where MotoGP is very popular - Southern Europe, Indonesia for example - the awareness of Triumph as a brand has increased significantly from our involvement in Moto2. “At the end of the day, what we really want to do is sell more motorcycles. I think Moto2's done us a lot of good. “ It’s not only new customers that Moto2 has helped attract to the Triumph brand, but engineers. “We do now get quite a lot of engineers applying to work at Triumph who have said, ‘the reason I've applied is because I've seen you in Moto2, I'm a race fan and I want to get involved in that kind of thing’,” Sargent explained. “Or they might also have heard about us going into off-road, Motocross and Enduro. "[Racing] definitely does attract people to want to come and work for you.” ‘If you want to test your engineering, put it in the hands of Moto2 riders!’ In terms of the technical benefits, Sargent said there is nothing like putting your engines in the hands of 30 of the world’s fastest up-and-coming riders. "I think quite honestly there's no other class in motorcycle racing where you get the opportunity - but also the risk! - of being able to demonstrate that you can put a competitive race engine out there, to be used by so many different riders and teams, and prove to be reliable," Sargent said. “With all of our road bikes, we do quite a lot of track endurance testing using current and ex-British Superbike riders. They're all good riders. But they’re not riding as hard as these [Moto2] guys, I can tell you that! “If you really want to test the robustness of your engineering, put it in the hands of these Moto2 guys, who are desperate to prove that they're capable of being MotoGP riders. “If anybody's going to push it to the absolute limit. It's these guys.” Taking the engines well beyond their ‘street’ limits for lap after lap gives Triumph valuable real-world data. While the production 765cc engine has a rev limit of 12,650, which was raised to 14,000 RPM for the Moto2 race version, the revs get much higher when exposed to a careless downshift. “We're seeing the engines being quite heavily abused, overrevved to 15,300, and that's something we never see on a road bike,” Sargent said. “So one of the key things for us is that when the engines come back after every three rounds to be stripped down by Trevor [Morris, ExternPro], are there any components that are having more wear than we expected? Are there any components in the engine that might be fracturing or anything like that? “But I'm sure Trevor will back me up in that generally every single engine that gets opened looks brand new.” While spotting signs of weakness or wear during an engine rebuild has obvious R&D benefits, Sargent explained how Triumph also learns from the ‘brand new’ parts. “When we design engines, we do a lot of theoretical calculations about the stresses that are going into certain components,” he said. “But at the end of the day, those calculations are only as good as the [numbers] that go into them and so there always has to be a safety factor included. “Using the new Street Triple that we launched [at Valencia] as an example, saying to the engineers ‘we want to go from 123 to 130 PS’. They might have said, ‘I think that takes us into our safety factor’ for a certain component. “But we could show it’s the same component that we've been using in Moto2 for the last three seasons, that we know can live to over 15,000 RPM on a regular basis with no issues. “So all of that helps go back into road bike development. It’s also the same team that does both the road bike and the Moto2 engines. We don’t use a separate race department. “That means a lot of what we learn not only helps us think about where we want to take the Moto2 engine next but how much of that can we also bring into the standard Street Triple.” The highest top speed recorded by a Triumph Moto2 engine is 301.8km/h by Stefano Manzi at the 2019 Australian Grand Prix. With no replacement found for Suzuki, the MotoGP grid will shrink from 24 to 22 places next season.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we start to loose more manufactures from GP in the coming years. the costs are extraordinary and I imagine brands are struggling to justify the outlay (Suzuki). Especially when nobody is buying sports bikes and half the grids going to be Ducati next year
I know it’s been done to death but I find it incredible how they haven’t even attempted to build a litre sports bike. Bet they’d get a 1000 orders as soon as it went on sale in this country alone. There’s your first two years in moto gp/wsb straight off the bat How many fkn moto cross bikes are they going to sell lol In his own words… “At the end of the day, what we really want to do is sell more motorcycles. I think Moto2's done us a lot of good. “
Yup, I don't understand it. I mean, a middleweight costs almost exactly the same to manufacture as a Superbike: an R6 for example, the frame, wheels, suspension, fairings, almost everything costs the same as the R1, even the engine is so similar architecturally bar minor differences in producing 1000cc vs 600cc, yet they can charge far more for the Superbike. Superbikes are surely profit leaders, not the smaller stuff, make it a triple and they have an instant point of difference they can exploit. It blows my mind that they don't target the higher profit margin with a bigger bike. But then maybe that's exactly what they see with the chook chasers, maybe comparatively they see them as super cheap to produce with a high profit margin?
Reeks of a lack of ambition doesn’t it, which coming from a CPO would start raising alarm bells with me.
Triumph’s ambition – if it has any sense – must be in electric motorcycles. Whatever we think of electric ‘bikes, they are the future. Unless MotoGP can bring alternative fuels to life, it’s petrol-powered time is numbered.
The 675 Daytona was selling very small numbers by the end of its life and the Speed Triple RR has been a disaster. There is not enough money in sportsbikes to justify the r and d. It is apparently very difficult to get high powered big cc engines through emissions control which is why they are likely to become track legal only soon. I believe the next R1 will be track only.
I think the reign of EVs will be relatively short lived. Have a look at this which I found quite surprising.
My dads been doing dev work in ev for a few years now. Has yet to meet anyone who thinks it’s anything other than lip service.
It was THE biggest disappointment tbh when Triumph made a massive deal about launching an EV bike, based around the speed triple RS sort of dimensions, it looked so cool. Then when they did the announcement in Nov time it was literally half the range, twice the price and they sad "oh yeah we could never afford to make this one"
As a confirmed Triumph 675/765 fanboy, I’m afraid to say I fully agree. Why they can’t use the brilliant engine they have developed with a bit more ooomph - say 135-140 bhp at crank. Then proper clipons. Rearsets. Fairings a la moto2 and ditch the frankly ridiculous nanny state electric package for a decent one like Ducati or BMW. Then paint it in pretty colour. Oh. And do the same but 200bhp with the 1200. I’m afraid their customer focus groups are full of bearded hipsters rather than people who are interested in/love sports bikes.
As a mate of mine said about Triumph they want their customer base to live a little but for a long time.
