Having endured several very hot rides into Central London these past few weeks - I was wondering if anyone has used waterless coolant in their bikes? Evanscoolants.co.uk produce one specifically for bikes (called PowerSports R) and it's something I'm looking to do. Just wondered if anyone has done this.
I knew someone who had thatuff in his car. Should have seen the mess it made after he had a coolant leak and it caught fire. Just use bormal coolant and fit a thermostat that cuts in a few degrees earlier. Thats what i did and it works great. May have to do some homework to suss out a replacement stat. Waterless coolant, no thanks!
waterless coolant is best. No water = no internal engine or aluminimum corrosian. The coolant doesn't boil at 100^, and it doesn't expand as much as water - so less stress on joints etc. Also the best bit - it conducts heat faster than water .. so cools better. So all good - except of course its more expensive cause you don't dilute it with water
I have it in a Desmosedici, 1098R, Streetfighter S and a Vespa. I wouldn't use anything else. The service manager at my local Ducati dealer uses it in his stuff too. It's a topic that seems to bring out very polar opinions though. http://ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/waterless-coolant.41242/ http://ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/waterless-coolant.5788/
It is used as an alternative in some Rotax aircraft engines (I won't have it in mine), but beware it has a lower thermal transfer rate than water. If your bike gets very hot you would not want to use it. If it were as good as the claims state then why is it not used as standard in any cars or bikes? Best thing is decent anti freeze which has corrosion inhibitors anyway. If you have to top up with water then use distilled water.
Leaving aside all the waffle, boasting, and promotional bullshit, the interesting questions about Evans waterless coolant are: 1. What substances precisely does it consist of? 2. What precisely are the physical and chemical properties of those substances? 3. How exactly are those properties better than water and antifreeze? Evans seem to be extremely reluctant to answer any of those questions. So until they do, I shall not be using their products.
This is a one that keeps coming up. Evans have a product they have developed and marketed, I assume at a considerable cost. It is their buisness at this point in time to protect their investment and sell this product profitably to grow their buisness. Why should they tell anybody what the ingredients are? Do people demand that Shell give them a breakdown of the ingredients of their oils? Pirelli supply you with a breakdown of their rubber composition? BP tell you exactly what is in their 98RON? Apparently only 5 people in the world know the recipe for Heinz Baked Beans, billions eat them without demanding to know the recipe and anybody that asks the recipe wouldn't get very far. What about The Colonel's KFC recipe? The world if full of industrial secrets and intellectual property. Ah but, "I'm putting it into my engine" I hear you say, "so I need to know." No you don't. As outlined above, your engine uses many fluids and you haven't the 1st idea about most of them.
To be fair to any of us sceptics, water has been used as a coolant for many years now and has done a good job. Evans is trying to take over with something that does not have the thermal transfer capability of water. They will quote reasons why their product is better than water, but remember that they are a business that are trying to part you with your money when you can get water for free. I am not saying that anyone should not use it, it is personal choice what we choose to put into any bike that we own, but as soon as one person starts trying to persuade other to follow that same choice, then the others will question why Ducati don't use it from new. Jobless Witnesses sometimes turn up at my door to try and persuade me that there choice would be good for me, but all that they do is alienate me against what they are pushing. If a consumer wants to know what is in a product before buying, but the seller will not expose the contents, then why would that consumer have any confidence in the product? I don't think that BP would tell you what is in their expensive petrol. but there is no free alternative to petrol, so they have yo by the short and curleys.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying @Bob T and I'm not endorsing this product or Evans themselves. I'm simply saying I use it and have done for some time with no issues and some benefits. Antifreez / water mix will do a perfectly good job in a new vehicle, long before any issues begin to show a vehicle will be long out of warranty. So expensive waterless coolant does not benefit a manufacturer. I also have not heard any motor manufacturer tell people specifically not to use the stuff, only 'experts' on the interweb. In fact, Noble now use it as oem (I'm assuming they were told of it's composition before making the decision). My reply centered around the fact people are demanding ro know what it's composition is before they will use it. You yourself say "If a consumer wants to know what is in a product before buying, but the seller will not expose the contents, then why would that consumer have any confidence in the product?" I can't think of anything in my life that I've demanded to to know it's make up before I'll use it. Checking sugar and fat content on food packaging is a close as it gets. People on here are happy to use puncture protection fluid, Ducati don't use it from new. I don't see posts asking why and about how it will disolve tyres, causing blow outs and death, and demanding to know the recipe. See, I told you it would be controversial.
I'd put fresh angel virgin blood in my Pani if I would bring the temps down a bit! I've gotta admit, I just dont like seeing the temps creep up to 100-105 when stuck in traffic on a 20-25c hot day. Although in Ducati's defence, I ask all my mates what their temps are on GSXR's and Blades and they say - 98-105 when stuck in traffic. If there's a way to maintain <95c when in traffic on a hot day I'd doing it.
It is quite safe like that, the fans will cut in at a temperature below a dangerous temperature. You want to try riding my 848 through the centre of Perigueux with loads of traffic and 39c. It gets very hot, but not hot enough to cause any damage.
Thanks Bob. I'm planning to take my bike to the states for 2-3 months and will definitely be looking into improved cooling as it'll be more comfortable for me and the bike. I'm thinking pure water, wetter water and even upgraded radiator options. I'll see what Cornerspeed, Luigi and Moto Rapido say are the options.
I wouldn't use something like waterless coolant whilst my bike was still under warranty. Companies are always looking for excuses not to honour the warranty. My bike recently had a water pump replaced under warranty. I wonder what Ducati would have said if I had been using a non-standard coolant...
The only options for more cooling are a bigger radiator and bigger fans. Ducatis that are sold in hot places such as the south of Spain or the south of Italy have the standard rads and fans fitted, so I suspect that the factory tests deemed these to be adequate for all climates.
Imho, the temperature management on our bikes leaves definite room for improvement. My 999 basically runs too cool at speed and too hot in traffic. Fitting a larger radiator and bigger fans is hardly an easy option. I'm not at all sure if the Evans stuff is basically similar to Water Wetter and the cheaper Motul equivalent or not but I have read of someone putting Water Wetter in their Ducati and draining it out again because it ran too cool, so if we want the system to cool more efficiently, that may be good news as it does suggest that those products do have better heat transfer properties than the standard 50/50 water and and antifreeze type coolant. If that is indeed the case, then maybe the way forward is to use Water Wetter or the Motul stuff and swap the thermostat for one that comes in at a higher temperature. My 999 runs at 70c on the open road, which I suspect may be cool enough for the ECU to still be providing a rich mixture. If I were to swap the thermostat for one that comes in at say 85c, then hopefully, the Water Wetter might allow the bike to run at 85c on the open road but make the radiator more efficient at keeping the temperature from rising as rapidly as the speeds reduce and the fans better at controlling the temperature when stuck in heavy traffic, so the temperature never rises above that at which the fans cut in. On the 999, one cuts in at 101 c and then if that doesn't control the rise, the other cuts in at 103c. Imho, we want the temperature to rise to 100c sometimes in order to allow any water that condenses in the engine to boil out of the oil in order to prevent 'mayonnaise'. I'm sure that's why Ducati set the fans to come in at over 100c, there is some method in their madness
