I'm looking to open up the engine below the 3k, loose some weight if possible and get rid the the exh valve / loop tuning / etc... I just got an MIVV De cat pipe and am now looking for the right mufffler. CSJ tipped an Arrow muffler... there seem to be different ones available... the MIVV decat comes with a baffler ( to reduce noise? ) so do i have to add an 'open' Arrow? or does it still require a silent version ( db killer? ) what to do? grtz Koen
Hi Koen, The Termi shorty and OEM mufflers fit (with the additional link pipe), and pretty much any (I would expect) Mivv muffler will fit (without the link pipe...they don't need them). For any other manufacturers muffler you would have to try it and see, but I wouldn't really expect them to fit. They might, they might not. In terms of the baffle, it's only needed for the OEM or Termi shorty, because they have little/no baffling of their own. If you get another muffler (say from Mivv) which has a baffle in the muffler, only use that. Don't use both. Put another way, remove the baffle from the Mivv decat! The options are endless really, and the gains quickly diminish as the costs rise rapidly. The biggest "gain" if from putting a decat on (Mivv or Leo Vince spring to mind). The Mivv is the cheapest option, and adding a baffle removes some of the noise. It also "decreases" performance a little (from a straight through system. It is much better than stock). To get better low down running, I'd look at FatDucs or an O2 optimiser. You could go to CJS in Bristol, but that is more money..£500 I believe. Yes I is the best option, but it costs the most too. The next step from Mivv/Leo Vince decat + OEM/Termi shorty is to fit a different muffler (e.g. Mivv) which has a baffle in the muffler. But this is also more expensive, for a small gain. After that you are onto "system" type exhausts like the full Termi or QD (Quat D), but they are more expensive again. Yes they are better, but you pay for it. Again, getting the ECU correctly mapped by someone like CJS will make it even better, but at more cost. It's the pound spent per bhp I'm talking about. The "biggest" gains are immediate. Other gains are there to be had, but you have to spend ever increasing amounts to get them. My advice would be to put the Mivv decat and OEM Muffler on (with the baffle, unless you like it very loud), and to then get FatDucs/O2 manipulator and see how you like it. You could also get a freer flowing air filter. If you need "more power" or "less noise" you can then plan your next move from there. I hope that helps. ...
Oh, almost forgot....getting rid of the CAT box will save around 6.5kg!! It also removes the Exhaust valve. The cable remains, but that is what the spring and "nut clamp" are for.. ;-) To clarify, the FatDucs/O2 Manipulator deal with the "closed loop" running (as does a CJS ECU flash, amongst the other things it does). What you will end up with, is a lot less weight (no CAT), better running all over (no CAT and a more "open" system), better low down running (with FatDucs/O2 manipulator or indeed a CJS reflash), and a whole lot more noise! The only exhaust that is as quiet as the OEM is the Termi shorty, but that is because they both run with the CAT (which is where all the baffling is). The only other thing to say is... Enjoy!!
Hi Koen i agree with Dave! I am running the Mivv de cat with the Ghibli end can! No baffle! The oem and termi stubby was too loud on the de cat as they are not silencers! The baffle is not good! Restricts the air flow and robs power and consumption! Removing the stock exhaust made a huge difference to performance, smoothness and fuel efficiency! Adding the fat ducs probably improved everything by about another 5%. I then took the bike to Chris at CJS and he tweaked it some more (this may be difficult for you coming from holland and all) which probably improved it all by another 5%! The best is Chris turns off the need for the exhaust valve and the lambda O2 sensors! The biggest improvement came from discarding the old oem exhaust box! I am happy with the current set up!
Yeah, the only thing to add to that is that Koen is getting a "Mark 1" BR baffle.... ;-) What's that you say? (And how do I know?) Well, it's the very first version that BR tuning made, and it is 50% longer AND has a removable bolt. So? So, that means more airflow. What does that mean? That means the airflow isn't as restricted as the later versions (supposed to be quieter, but which actually aren't really, not by much anyway). How do I know? Because I had a "Mark 2" BR baffle as well. How do I know what Koen is getting? Because I sold him my Mivv decat and BR baffle... ;-) Unless the postman gets lost on the way to Belgium! Anyway, as Multi Rider also explains, there are many options, and many ways of spending your money. I should know, I had a A Termi shorty (sold to Shaun - BDG), a BR Mark 2 baffle (sold to a nice man from Portugal), a Mivv decat and Mark 1 BR baffle (sold to Koen), as well as the OEM muffler. There's not much difference in performance between the Termi shorty and OEM mufflers (on the decat), but I'd say the OEM actually shades it! The Mark 1 baffle is actually pretty good, the Mark 2 not. In a effort to reduce noise, it does dampen the performance somewhat (still better than stock though!). I think a fair few people asked for "less noise", which is why Brian (BR tuning) changed the design. I'm running Carbon Quat-Ds (system) with the baffles out, in conjunction with FatDucs and a freer flowing air filter. Goes like stink so it does, and the Multi positively barks with aggressive intent. It sounds beautiful. Now I remember why I love big V twins so much.... ))
Actually, I forgot something really important.... ANY muffler that is intended to fit the CAT will fit on the Mivv decat with the extra link pipe. The link pipe is the key piece here. Therefore, if the Arrow (or other muffler) is intended to fit the OEM system, it will fit the Mivv decat + link pipe. However, because the CAT does all the baffling as stock, it is unlikely that the non-standard muffler will come with a baffle. It might, but I doubt it. Therefore, to answer your original question about "which Arrow", the answer is "any that fits the OEM CAT. It will not improve performance or sound though. Removal of the CAT does those things. Hope that helps...and makes some sense! David
I have the arrow carbon pipe and was under the impression you had to use their collector pipes as well. I got both, got rid of the cat, etc. As the fitting is tight around there I would say anything that is a few cm's out would mean that the exhaust would touch the tyre. Quality and look I think the arrow is tops - but I would say you need to go with their collector pipes personally. You could of course buy the arrow and give it a go, if it doesn't fit then go ahead and get the collector.
Maybe. Basically, if a muffler fits the OEM CAT, then it will fit the Mivv Decat + Link pipe (you only get the link pipe if you buy the Mivv decat on its own I believe). If a muffler doesn't say it fits OEM, then chances are it doesn't fit and, like Maigrait says, it needs it's "own" decat.
Gentlemen, this is the most extensive and complete answer i have received on any question on any fforum i ve ever asked! For which i thank you all.... :smile: grtz Koen
If you fit the Ghibli, then you don't need the link pipe. Link pipe to de cat costs around £80 from BR tuning!
i have bought a secondhand mivv decat pipe. It didnt come with link pipe. will the termi stubby still fit without as he assured me? Anyone got a pic of this link pipe or indeed one for sale if i need one.
Sadly not. You need the link pipe to fit the Termi Stubby or OEM muffler (or any muffler that fits the OEM fittings). As it stands, the Mivv decat you have will only work with a Mivv muffler (e.g. Ghibli). Multi Rider says that BR tuning sell them (see earlier in the thread). Otherwise maybe someone here has one...unlikely though as you'd sell them together. You could buy a Mivv muffler? That would be less noisy ... Ask Multi Rider about noise comparisons with a Mivv muffler. Or your best bet is to find someone who bought a Mivv decat pipe with link pipe, but then got a Mivv muffler (so has the link pipe "spare"). Or go back to the seller, he told you porkies!
Try this... the link pipe is the small bit, and fits onto the decat pipe (bottom left hand corner of the picture).
On flea bay there are some Chinese decat pipes for £130. Any good or further comments? I've an annoying glitch in the throttle response at between 2000-3000rpm in any engine mode. I was hoping that a decat and a new zorst would help. Sorry to butt in here.
I'm no expert and I have no specific knowledge of these (although I have seen then on fleabay) They are Chinese and cheap............This does not bode well.
