Hi all I joined this forum yesterday (you might have seen my post in newbies). I'm not new to Ducatis, having had a '98 600 Monster Dark, followed by a 2003 Multistrada 1000DS and currently owning a 2011 Multistrada 1200ABS, all good bikes in their own way, and safe to say, I'm a Ducati Man I've also recently refurbished a couple of Yamaha trail bikes: first off my old trail riding tool which is a grey import DT200WR, then a 1983 DT125LC, just... because. So, I have some new-found mechanical skills (to a point), and some time on my hands and have been looking around for another project. This is when a mate mentioned he was about to give up on his 1991 900SS. I say "give up on" because he's owned it 5 years, but at some point it had snapped a couple of cylinder head studs on the vertical cylinder. He's had the engine out of it and taken it to a shop to get the broken studs out. One has snapped below the surface of the crankcase, and the other about 2" above. The shop have had a half-hearted attempt at getting the sunken stud out by drilling, but have not got very far, and thankfully stopped before too much damage done. The other broken stud is untouched. The rest of the bike is in clean and complete (ish) but in bits. Forks have been rebuilt, carbs cleaned, frame powder coated (black, but was originally white - I'll post separately about this), tank is in good condition and taken back to bare metal ready for painting. It has had various other bits done and has carbon cans (Micron). Anyway, it's all pretty much there and , subject to getting the studs out and replaced (all 8), should be a fairly straightforward bolt together. The only other issue with the engine is that the shop had removed the vertical piston when attempting to drill out the stud, and, sadly, this has gone walkabout. One other mechanical issue is that he suspects that the rear shock might be seized as it is very stiff. Second hand shocks go for about £100 on eBay (functionality and condition unknown) and a rebuild (it's a Sachs and not sure if it can be rebuilt) would be about £200 I reckon. A replacement Maxton or Nitron would be about £300 to £400 I guess. So, he had a figure in mind for it as it was, snapped studs and all, but then has dropped the price to compensate for the fact that it might need a new rear shock or rebuild. Since then he's realised that the piston isn't there, and we've both separately established that a new pair of pistons ain't gonna be cheap (had a quote today for a pair of JE pistons, standard 92mm diameter) for £366 inc VAT and delivery. Ouch. A set of CCW studs as sold by Mr Exige on this very forum is going to run me just under £100. Getting the broken studs out is going to cost me anywhere between £100 and £500+, depending on how easily they come out, or, worst case, might need spark-eroding out or helicoiling if the cases end up damaged (this is the type of work I would definitely give to someone with the experience and equipment to do it, and thankfully there is someone local that I trust). Since it would make sense to change all 8 studs at the same time, there is also the risk that other studs may be seized and could snap during removal, though from what I read this doesn't seem so common as failure in use. So, some big bills to come which could add up to between £600 and £1000+, and what's on my mind is whether or not it's worth it. The bike is an early one (1991) with only 18,000 miles, and could be put back to standard (white frame) and would be reasonably collectible at some point in the future. There don't seem to be many around, and looking at eBay's completed listings, around £2k would seem to be a fair value at the moment for a bike in good working order. I'm not in it for the money, but the enjoyment of the project, though that said it would be best if it could at least wash its face in terms of cash spent, if not time. Depending on how it turned out, it would be a nice bike to own (I've always like the white frame/red half-faired look) and could be the ideal Sunday tool, or even form the basis for a neat custom. I'll post separately about that... Thoughts please? Money pit or go for it? Thanks
2k sounds a bit light for one in good order, would have thought around 3. Fact is you could buy a bike for 10k, 20, 30+k and still put money into it to personalize or do what you deem necessary, but only you know what you're after and what your expectations are. All I can say is the carby ss is a cool bike and in my mind a must own at some point bike. Do it!
Sounds like a great winter project, the studs should be the only real issue, but a good machine/engine shop should sort that. If you do go ahead i may have a single used piston with rings lurking in my box of `may come in handy one day`. The costs are going to be quite low if all the parts are there and the tank is not rotten at the rear seam.
if you are buying as an investment yes better than money in the bank but with the work it might not be a big return but if you after it because you just want it then go for it at least you know what needs doing to it from the off unlike buying a pukka rebuilt bike just to find out its bodged to hell the studs should be fair easy if the engine is out of the bike a good engineering shop should sort easy buy it and have fun there might be a few frustrations along the way but once it finished you will not regret it as for values yes 2k sounds a bit low for a sorted ss they have risen well in the last year or so save it and have some fun
You'll be surprised how the rebuild budget gets blown quite quickly. My advise is to have a clear goal in mind of what you want to achieve. Is it just something nice to knock about on or a complete nut and bolt rebuild back to original condition? My rebuild of my 91 900SS started out as a tidy up and ended up being a full restoration. Jobs got done twice as a result. I reckon I spent around 4k getting mine straight and that doesn't include buying the bike to start with. I reckon it's worth 4k on a good day to the right buyer. I wouldn't sell it for less than 6 though, and it's not for sale.
I have had similar issues with the studs, you just need a good machine shop, the metal is a nightmare to work. I have a Showa shock which is working which I would sell for less than £100 if you are interested, I replaced with a Maxton. I paid 250 for my high comp 92mm JE pistons, well worth it. Its a Ducati and could well turn into a money pit. Mine is and I have 2 other Dukes. Buy Ducatis with your heart not your head. I have put far more money into it than I will ever get back, its a keeper.
Welcome mate Had a DT200WR myself a good few years back with a full FMF system which really brought it alive. Not as grunty as my old CRM250 but preferred it as it was a small Yamaha and no one makes two strokes like they do
Thanks Bumpstart, that's very helpful. I've had a couple of people tell me that pistons should be changed as a matching pair? If so (I hadn't considered it but it might make sense) that might preclude it as an option but I'll come back to you on that if/when this comes off...
Thanks mate. I might be interested in that shock when the time comes. How much was the Maxton as a matter of interest? I think the JE pistons have gone up a fair bit as they're imported from Australia. The price on the website was wrong and went up by about £40 when I phoned!
Yep, it's a cracking little bike. I don't think I'll ever sell it, though it gets no use at the moment, despite the rebuild. I have an FMF system in my watch list though that's gone up from £131 to £177!!
Try Ebay.com for US sellers...Wiseco Pistons Wiseco Piston Kit Ducati 900SS 83 87mm | eBay Ask for a deal on the postage for two - seems steep for shipping but cheap for the pistons.
Good point. I started out thinking I would cafe racer it (nicely) but very quickly have come to he conclusion that it would be better put back to standard... It will never be concours standard though, I just don't do that. For me, bikes are there to be used., so the "nice to knock about on" is more my aim.
I've recently carried out a somewhat similar task for my 900 SL : Following an engine failure that forced me to consider either : Send away for a rebuild : £2000'ish Total rebuild myself (with assistance from more mechanically competent mate). Replacement engine. I took the last course of action and eventually sourced one for a good price but it had suffered from stud failure that required dealt with firstly. Luckily the seller had bought 4 studs to do one head but the sensible thing was to do some preventative work whilst the engine was out so I had to just buy the remaining 4 studs for the 2nd cylinder - close to £50 I think Then of course it was sensible to do a top-end rebuild whilst everything was nice and accessible - I bought a top end rebuild kit as advised by local Ducati dealer. This contained most things needed. Jobs I did (you may well know the score so apologies if I am telling you stuff you already know) Valve stem oil seals Valve spring collets. Valve clearances - everythign was within spec (phew). I also sourced exhaust gaskets plus the half-rings that slip inside the header/port as these were a bit crumbly. Also, as is fairly widely known, the crank journal plugs on these have a tendency to 'back-out' and I think the result is that they can start hitting the case and the top of the plug gets shaved off. I've seen a pic where the slot that a screwdriver fits in was almost non-existent : there are 3 plugs in total, 2 small and 1 large. The large one is not accessible - think you need to split the cases. 2 are accessible with the barrels off - on mine 1 was in nice and tight, 1 was pretty easy to unscrew and I think was likely to be slowly heading out so it was worthwhile - these are pretty cheap for the peace of mind. I sourced all 3 plugs but only replaced the 2 accessible ones, the 3rd is bigger/more expensive (£10 ?) You will also fit new belts etc : Exige on here does them for a good price, a good saving over the Ducati ones. It all adds up, as others have said - I was lucky in that I had a 'good' engine where only the studs were actually needing done but as others have said it is easy to come across lots of little bits that you want to do that bump the cost up. Getting even the complete studs out was a task in itself : i had 6 to remove and 4 were fine, 1 hard, 1 f**ng hard. Using 2 nuts locked together it seems that possibly the combination of trying to lube the threads (GT85 I think) plus a heat gun had the last one squeaking and creaking it's way out. They have been known to break during removal. In the end when you can stand back, press the button and it cranks into life it is a great feeling and knowing you've done the job right and it is good for many miles to come it is a great feeling.
Agree with what Mr Superlight said. Myself and others have split cases if you found you needed to delve deeper. The studs are unfortunately a pita! The rear shock was expensive, not as much as the front however! You can get cheaper alternatives such as hagon (£300?). A rebuild may even cost less than what you quoted £100 or thereabouts, check ebay for example. The satisfaction of it all coming together once I'd done most of the rebuild myself was immense. They are great bikes
I've used this seller a couple of times, found them to be excellent, willing to do a deal for two pistons and quote a price, all duties paid for goods delivered to your door. Very pleased with my deals with them
Thanks guys for all your words of wisdom and sage advice. I've been quoted £366 for a pair of JE pistons by a UK seller, and £291 (delivered) by a seller in the US, and my mate has dropped his price accordingly, so the deal is agreed. Whether this ultimately turns out to be a fun project and wise investment or a money pit and source of endless frustration remains to be seen, but I look forward to sharing the journey with you all. I won't be getting it till well into the New Year (got to make space in the workshop first!), then the full horror/joy will be revealed. Mr Exige, I'll certainly be in touch with you for some of your CCW studs and possibly other bits and pieces at the time. Meantime, I shall continue looking around the forum and building up my knowledge! Cheers all James
