My 2001 Monster S4 will not start after a 3 week park up. There is no spark from the plugs. Tried new plugs and used a HT tester to confirm. Immobilers light goes out ok, fuel getting through ok, kill switch resistance/operation checked ok. Whilst cranking there is a steady 11 volts at the coil stick connectors. Tried new coil sticks. Suspected crank position sensor, gap ok, resisatnce ok and magnet strong. Sensor generates pulse ok when testing it although strength of pulse not known. All connectors inspected and reconnected. ECU connectors good too. Tried spare key. Tried another battery. Any suggestions please.
The coils, injectors and fuel pump all get their 12V feed from the fuel pump relay. At switch on the pump should run for a few seconds to pressurise the injection system. When the engine is turning, on the starter or under it's own power the crank sensor sends a pulse to the ECU. This keeps the fuel pump running and provides a 12v feed to the coils and injectors. It also gives the ECU the timing for the sparks and injection. These are fired by switching their ground connection on/off as required. If the ECU isn't switching the coils (and probably not the injectors either) it can only be because, there is no or a poor signal from the crank sensor, the ECU is faulty, or the immobiliser is preventing it. Check the condition of the connector between the immobiliser and the ECU. It is in a position where it collects spray and muck from the road and the pins/sockets can get oxidised. Also worth looking at the connector from the immobiliser to the antenna at the ignition switch.
Thanks, I will take a second look at the connectors, there was a small amount of corrosion in the immobilser one when I looked before but seemed to be an unused pin. Steady volts does look like ecu/immobilser problem then. I will check to see if fuel pump runs/has volts whilst cranking, it runs ok to prime. Will see if can check if injectors are switching (as that will finally eliminate the crank sensor if they are I guess). I tried another ecu which I bought with some Termi pipes but don't know if it's serviceable or not. I was told it was a racing ecu, it has the connector cap on it to confirm that and label on it is MS4DUCATI006 61600.544.00. Shouls this ecu bypass the immobiliser as I was told, because the immobiliser light stayed steady on when I tried it. (or have I been sold a pup with that one?)
Sorry the number on the label means nothing to me. ChrisW on the forum may be able to help you identify the ECU and he can also reflash your existing one to remove the immobiliser function
All connectors seem good, cleaned and reseated a few times to make sure. Bypassed kill switch even though previously checked. Checked pulse from crank sensor whilst cranking, certainly puts out an output but does seem to point to it (wishful thinking as immobilser.ecu, ignition switch on the cards...ouch). Any other ideas much appreciated guys.
I think the second ECU you have is a stock one and is very likely coded. A faulty starter motor can produce the no spark symptoms. I have a loan IAW59M ECU that I lend out for problem solving. All I ask is that you pick up P&P and return promptly.
That would be great, my e-mail is [email protected]. Is that your contact ducati-john? Unfortunately I haven't got a wiring diagram so cant fathom out the faulty starter possibility. How about the sidestand switch, does that have 2 sets of contacts, one set ,for starter circuit one set for ignition disable, just a thought? Any good sites for wiring diagrams, paid or free?
There should be a wiring diagram in the back of the Owners Manual. If you haven't got one you can download it from www.ducati.com. You can download the wiring diagram from my dropbox There is only one pair of contacts to the sidestand switch. The ECU controls whether the starter operates or not depending on the combination of the stand switch and neutral switch (and clutch switch too on later models).
Thanks, the diagram was missing from my owner's manual, now got it and it all starts to make sense. Damn ecu, it does more than it needs to! Had a quick play again earlier today and the starter stopped operating, had to move the sidestand a couple of times, starter worked again then stopped. Wishful thinking is now that sidestand switch is high resistance, allowing solenoid to operate (up to now) but not signalling the ecu correctly. Will try later. thanks again Derek and ChrisW, let you know how it goes (or doesn't go).
Sidestand switch checked out ok, the starter issue was purely coincidental and turned out to be a loose connector on the solenoid. So, back to square one, no spark. Next step check all relevant wiring for continuity I suppose prior to trying the ecu, Would like to take up your offer please ChrisW if it comes to that.
lift the back wheel remove plugs slip in to gear turn engine over with back wheel and recheck for spark.
+12V at ign switch on. Red/White wire. Provided by the main relay through fuse 3. Also supplied to the immobiliser pin 8, the starter button and the kill switch.
Thanks Derek. Confirmed that, key recognition fine. However, didn't expect nearly 12V on key lock line at same time after turning on (ecu body conn pin 7. Is that right?? Tried your suggestion finm to eliminate the bizzare starter motor issue you had if I have read forum correctly (one of lifes mysteries that happen from time to time). Confirmed that injectors give just one pulse at cranking ie one squirt of fuel. After that during cranking steady 8.5V., Tried to see if spark occurs with injectors disconnected, no spark.
might be worth while getting a shot of a reflash'd ecu had a lot of faild coil drivers on punto ecu's when i work'd on fiats.
Yes, Body pin 7 is key lock. It is a serial line between the immobiliser(pin 6) and the ECU. Does this help regarding immobiliser functionality?
Yes, thanks for that.Have checked all ecu and immobiliser wiring and all the sensors plus condition of connectors Checked voltages where required and grounds. All good. Immobilser light extinguishes after 0.7 seconds so key recognition good. The sensors were checked at the ecu connectors for volts/resistance as necessary. So to sum up, no spark, injectors only giving one squirt of fuel. All points to timing sensor or ecu. The sensor is giving a pulse at the ecu but not sure of the pulse strength so as thats the cheapest part, guess will try that first. The Bosch website shows it as same part fitted to Fiat Bravo/Brava Punto 1.2 engine so its off to the breakers yard. I dont have the red key so glad immobiliser seems good.
you will need code box/ ecu and a key to match. there was two or three different aerials around the ignition barrel as well from what i remember different resistances i know you can have immobilisers disabled within engine ecu on fiats code 1 system.
talking pish. was thinking mark 1 not mark two. think i asked this question before and it was suggested that it wouldn't work. although its the same connections.
Well, latest is I have tried the ecu and it now gives one spark from each plug during cranking or turning the back wheel in gear. Timing sensor now prime suspect even though it produces an output (value unknown) and resistance and wiring correct......unless of course, somebody can suggest something else. Cheers guys.
