So definitely NOT the other Tony Brancato then .... Freelance gun-for-hire .... died in 1951 , from " natural causes " well , natural to his line of work anyway .... But seriously .... how hard can it be to turn out a few of those and sell them ? I don't even have a lathe , and I've always been a cack-handed dunce when mates have let me loose on their machinery . But some forum members have shown pics of really excellent work . Since there is no stress or load on the tool , wouldn't aluminium work well ? It would surely make the machining easy . I'm just shooting the breeze here .....
Thats the annoying part of sourcing parts out of the US, everything is $65 ! The UK is a much better deal ! I just bought a new Airbox and 2x inlet ducts for my diavel shipped via Fedex from Rapidomoto for GBP50. I couldnt find anything in the UK like the EMS shim kit so I had no choice, it ended up being kinda expensive for a handful of shims but its a good kit and had just what I needed ...well worth it IMHO, The EMS Closer Shim tool is made from hardened steel it appears, not chocolate flavoured brass like the lazer crap.
Hardened steel may be overkill , but it certainly can't hurt .... To my thinking , the most crucial factor is that it has that curve inside to take account of the half-rings , as shown in Derek's diagram . If the tool does not have that , then surely all measurements are going to be fractionally out ?
The saga continues....JMP tool arrived and it is EXACTLY the same as the Laser tool, even down to the packet that it came in. I tried to measure a brand new know size shim and it's also inconsistently 0.2mm out (probably down to the collet radius). Another option is now on it's way, still couldn't get hold of Brancato.
After using 3 different tools all available on ebay, Laser, JMP and another I’ve now got correct measurements by visiting my friendly, helpful local dealer and used the Ducati tool. All measurements with the ebay shite tools were between 0.15-0.25 out. Nothing wrong with the method I was using. In future I’ll be going back to the dealer for closing shim measurements, it took two minutes to get right. Note to self: stop buying shit of ebay. Now back to the rebuild....
You may find this useful. Whether 2V or 4V the principles are the same. When I did my 2V machine I just used my micrometer but I seem to remember something about doing the closers first and then taking your measurements for the openers. http://www.ducatitech.com/2v/maint/adjust/index.html Also, to get the closing shims of the right clearance I found it best to take the existing shims to your local Ducati workshop (in my case Baines Racing at Silverstone) and ask for a new shim X thicker than your existing shim. That way the existing and the new shims will have been measured using the same device, thus avoiding any measuring equipment discrepancies. To assist with the calcs I put this together on Excel which may be of help. As you can see I took more than one measurement on each shim whilst in the machine. All measurements were in Imperial units.
As Derek says if it’s consistent then not a problem. I also bought the Laser tool but not that impressed embarked on my own design and manufacture based on my preferred measurements tool a micrometer. The only problem was the closer is the central hole as I wanted to measure the shim normal to the centre and not at the outer which can give erroneous results based on central shaft tolerance. Basically it can rock side to side as I apply the micrometer. Solved this problem with an additional spacer. All material stainless which I had lying around. Here’s the closer and opener - both new and untouched. using only the micrometer Using my pillar zeroed as per laser device etc Both parts - anvil plus spacer Anvil plus spacer Anvil plus spacer - micrometer zeroed Anvil plus closing shim plus spacer - micrometer now measures closer shim
Brain not in gear yet. Can you please explain. Also, when I did the shims on my machine I replaced the collets (half rings). In hindsight I’m not entirely convinced that this was the way to go because whilst they looked to be in a serviceable condition I did notice that you could see where the edge of the groove in the valve stem had very slightly deformed the otherwise circular cross section of the collet. This surely will affect the closer clearance as this bedding in takes place? Does this make sense?
Yes it does make sense, not the washing thing, the collets thing. My collets all look perfect, I noted which way they came out but I’m buggered if I can see any wear with the naked eye. I’ll get a magnifier on them before reassembly to be sure.
If your machine is a 4V model then the forces exerted on the collets will be that much less because of the smaller valves?
Well on my 4 valve 1098 with over 60k still on the original collets with no noticeable wear to the eye. On my 2 valve monster with over 150k noticeable wear from new but then no noticeable change after 6k service however on my recent monster rebuild mostly for aesthetics treated her to a new set. Expect the same wear at 6k service.
I assembled one head last night, looked at the collets using a set of binoculars backwards as they work as a really good magnifier if you want to look at things very close up, or they make things look fookin' far away if you get it wrong. Anyway it was very tough to see any wear, a couple looked slightly more polished on one side but that's it. Cams in and clearance check next.
A lot has to do with how much within spec the closer clearances are. The bigger they are the more of a hammering the collets get, especially 2V engines with their heavier valves. On the older 2Vs with 8mm stems I've often found the collets coming out in 2 or more bits.
Thank you very much for that excellent guide ..... some clarity at last . It explains perfectly why it is sometimes hard to get consistent measurements on the closer . Great micrometer BTW ..... Mitutoyo are the business ! I've got a couple of their tools , including a dial gauge , which I bought when I foolishly started following the instructions in the factory manual .....
That’s the cams back in and clearances checked, all in tolerance. They would not have been if I’d relied on the laser tool. Lesson learned. Maybe we should set up a group buy of ems closer shim measurement tools, the shipping rate from them I think is the same up to 1kg. Bit pointless for one or two.
