Why Not Technology Thread.

Especially a Tiptronic with flappy paddle semi-manual for when you get to the twisties.

 

I've always wondered why someone hasn't yet designed a motorcycle based on 'best engineering principles' for every aspect (for the type of bike). I can't wait for the day we have a sports tourer bike that has zero gravity seating, angled so you lie on your front and spread your weight over your whole body but are upright enough not to strain your neck looking up. Suspended between the wheels with steering and braking forces de-linked, of course.

 

MV Turismo is very close to being an auto with it's SCS clutch and quickshifter combo. It's not necessary to use the clutch lever in most circumstances, but can use it to feather power if you need to at slow speeds.

 

VFR1200 had a DCT option years ago.

 

I considered buying a MV with scs but got put off by its maintenance needs, it’s just a Recluse clutch but tinkered with a little by MV is my understanding.

 

Not ridden one, but there is a reason these things haven’t taken off. Guessing they don’t work that well.

I think a full auto twist n go option, like a scooter, also get us all ready for the electric bike revolution

 

Like a Land Rover / Range Rover.

 

They work fine, it's just that people are used to normal gears and tend to want the interaction with their bikes.

 

This would mean not being able to put both feet on the floor unless you have changed to neutral before you come to a stop. I wonder how many people toppled over on these systems.

 

Also Honda made a sort-of automatic in the 70’s, I believe for the 400-4 platform. It didn’t take off either but these bikes come up for sale occasionally so somebody bought them.

 

Domt they work like scooters, ie it will sit in gear on the brake?

 

Yes, the CB400A, a twin from the 80's so around the superdream era. Saw one, a US import, for sale at the Stafford Bike show, and had a chat with the seller. Aimed at the US market, it was quite odd as it had a clutch lever and a gear lever in the conventional positions. It was a two speed semi automatic with the rider changing from N to 1st, and then to 2nd using the gear lever and rolling off the throttle. Power was transmitted to the semi automatic gearbox via a torque converter so there was no clutch. It didn't change gear itself like a conventional automatic car of the period.

The clutch lever was actually a handbrake as even in gear the bike would roll away on an incline.

The handbrake had a detent that needed two hands to operate so you didn't inadvertently apply it when changing down to enter a corner.

I told the seller 'I'm out', made my excuses and left.....

 

Not quite so extreme as zero gravity seating, but from an engineering perspective, hub centre steering is a theoretically better solution than telescopic forks. Vyrus, Bimota Tesi, and the odd Yamaha I believe made it to production, but never really accepted by the general public as it looked different, took some getting used to, as well as a bit pricey.

If it is better then perhaps need to proven in racing (win on Sunday, sell on Monday) but would probably need a big team to develop it properly to avoid other weaknesses of the bike resulting in poor results being blamed on the hub centre steering.


Underdevelopment was possibly what limited the Elf projects success. I just read that when Elf stopped the funding and the project came to an end, Honda bought all the patents and the only one used in production to date is the single sided swinging arm.....

Then again, if Ducati did it and it worked, you end up with the possibility that six times world champion Jonathon Rae would probably say "it's just not fair....."

 

I can assure you Coda that both feet could be placed on the floor with the old Indian Scout when the clutch pedal is in the out position and there is no need to change into neutral before coming to a stop. The pedal stays in the open clutch position until you move the pedal with the left foot.By the way I only dropped the bike once on black ice.The old Indians are great fun to ride.

 

Hub Centre steering AFAIK has always struggled because of lack of feel for the front tyre, it's also really had to get the stiffness in them at max lean which means they behave differently at high lean compared to forks, which as I understand it is more of an issue also than a rear single swingarm for example which some flex when driving at lean can be a good thing.

Also the anti dive properties are disputed, modern chassis dynamics have come to value appropriate levels of dive as it shortens the rake/trail and helps to turn the bike into the corner, which if managed properly gives the bike a shorter wheelbase through the turn until you start accelerating.

Finally I Think the amount of bushings/fixings and room for movement in worn hubs was the final main issue.

Ref air suspension, waste of time on a bike, the pump system needs to be stored somewhere, adds weight and the actual suspension is unsprung, so would be heavy.

I don't know about Belt drives, on sportsbikes it's probably just because you get 'take up' in a belt, which you don't on a chain.

 

Just light flak over the forum so far today....

 

I imagine the biggest stumbling block to mir innovation on mainstream bikes is people's reluctance to change. We're all.hsed to what we have and change doesn't come easy or quickly. Weight and cost are probably the other driving factor. A formula 1 style, single clutch, seemless, semi auto box (or full auto for that matter) isn't technically that challenging but it would add a significant amount of money to the final product. Who would want to spend that extra cash for a 0.2 second gain a lap on a track. Most of us could find a few seconds with talent.
By the way, electric is going to give all that soon anyway, clutch less, gearless, smooth and infinitely tunable power delivery at the push of a button. Still I won't be rushing out to buy one.
I like centre hub steering but I believe if it was better or had any advantage over forks every bike would have it by now.

 

Points taken, particularly the lack of feel which is something that comes up in the Tesi/Vyrus road tests I've read, but testers generally more enthusiastic after a few miles. Another downside is lack limit on steering angle and thus turning circle.

Also note the point with wear in bearings and bushings compounding things, but would expect with proper development these issues could be addressed and overcome. Wear in bushings and bearings is also a problem with conventional bike suspension, which, in all honest, must be approaching the end of it's development with only really marginal gains going forward.

I'd love one TBH....

 

A back brake on a Ducati that works would be an innovation in technology