Drop the oil, (run it through a sieve or tea strainer to see how much garbage is in there) and while you're at it, take off the clutch cover and have a look. It's an easy job and will only cost the price of a tube of instant gasket (plus the oil). Peace of mind, not worth running it without checking. There is a free online workshop manual if you need one (easy job, don't really need it, just recall the orientation and sequence as you take the plates out). If you need a cutch locking tool (not necessary unless you take out the basket) then PM me as I've still got one somewhere... Bob
This is why this forum is so great! Thanks for all the advice and help, now I've got something to look for and a bit of a plan. Bob, thanks for the offer of a lend of the clutch tool. I'll definitely take you up on that. Was also thinking of taking off the alternator cover to check the bearing in there. I'll need the removal tool for that I believe? Seen one for about 20 quid on fleabay. I'd used motul oil (green stuff) only last October. If it turns out there are no bits I assume it's ok to reuse the oil if I keep it clean? This is of course the best case scenario.... Trying to be optimistic. I'm at Anglesey this weekend with the rc8 so will plan to buy what I need to do investigation the week after.
So when I check the bearings I'm looking for lateral play? Could play still be present in the case that there's no paste or bits on the gauze? And if there is play what's next? Is bearing replacement a specialist's job? Or can a DIYer do it?
So I dropped the oil and gauze. This is what I found. Could well be a bearing is on its way, but no paste. Aside from the metal shards that obviously were part of a ring or metal there are some transparent amber bits that look somewhat like what I've seen holding ball bearings in place in this vid: On the magnet I found the same as before: splinters and flat pieces of metal. From the gauze, the large ring fragment is black on one side, metallic on the other - perhaps this gives some clues what part its from? What I thought was paste was some non-metallic grey material. Plastic? Gasket/sealant? Curly black objects appear to be non-metallic too, spring back to shape, some sort of plastic washer? Flat, black, non-metallic material. Some amber, transparent, hard pieces. Amber bits: The other side of the 'ring' is shiny metal Curly non metalllic bits top left, grey bits centre: Gray non metallic bits:
Here's a grab from that vid showing the amber part, save watching the whole thing. Not 100% convinced its the same material though.
Had a chat with Rich (Louigi Moto) and we're still none the wiser. Doesn't look like a big end bearing as no metal pieces were bronze/copper coloured. One idea suggested was that the clutch spring are rubbing on the inside of the clutch cover, hence the black plastic shavings. I'm fairly sure the grey pieces are just liquid gasket and the amber bits must be from a bearing cage. I found another video from the same US guy (Track848, he has quite a few good videos up on YT) examining his oil debris, and it looks very similar to mine: metal shavings, flat bits, grey bits of gasket and... amber bits. Turned out it was the alternator side bearing on his bike, so I'm going to be checking this on mine. This is his debris:
I've seen a few of his 848 swingarm videos. They are helpful. I remember the one about the bearing too. I hope yours turns out to be that simple. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was told that the grey / clear silicone stuff was what they used in the factory for sealing. Shouldn't be owt to worry about. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep, 99% sure that the grey stuff accounted for. Got a tube of it on order ready for pulling off the covers. That said it, even if I do have a look myself there's not much I can do about it. Need to book it in to LM asap. Wondering now about blueprinting....
Three bond stuff? That's what tobytyke used on mine while checking valves and doing the belts. I used it on the water pump cover and alternator covers as well. Easy to work with. Blue printing? Sounds like the start of the slippery slope! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep threebond. Didn't get the branded stuff just. IIUC Blueprinting is for longevity, that might be overkill at this stage. I have no idea of the cost either! God, you're not kidding Old rider. Wonder what other preventative steps can be taken if it does needs the engine out.
There was a thread on blueprinting a while ago and there were different ideas about the definition of blueprinting. My personal recollection is that it was a technique employed by manufacturers in the 60s/70s, who were not allowed to modify engines for certain forms/classes of racing. In order to stick to the letter of the rules but still get the most power possible, they adopted the practice of building optimised engines by sifting through standard manufactured parts for the ones that were most closely matched for balance etc and also at the optimum end of the tolerance specs in order to get maximum performance. It can also be applied to building an engine out of parts actually made or modified to be at the optimum end of tolerance specs, so the engine is theoretically standard spec but as good as it can possibly be without being outside of those specs. Step outside the tolerance range of standard parameters and the engine is then 'tuned'. Can't help thinking, if this is right, that tuning is going to be a cheaper option...
I haven't read all the posts in this thread. So please forgive me if I'm repeating anyone else. Pop the small cover off the flywheel side. And have a check of the support bearing. If the mains are on their way out it normally flogs the hell out of that small bearing. Good luck buddy. Hope it ends well.
Old rider : I understood it to mean making sure everything is as close to spec as possible rather than just within tolerances... which is kind of what you said. I'm not interested in getting more power as such, just longevity. Northan Monkey Thanks for the tip, will do that. So if it is gone that still could mean more problems deeper in? TBH I need to make sure I understand all the terminology and which bearings are called by what names!
My understanding of blue printing is to match component weights and balance the crank etc to minimise vibration, helping to improve component life, more relevant of course if you are tuning the crap out of it but I think it has benefits to a standard engine just to make sure everything is balanced and in spec. I think that looks like the sealant but also that's a fair amount of metal kicking around there mate. Definitely worth taking the engine out yourself and taking off all you can like cam covers, sensors, throttle bodies etc and then just getting a pro to do the last bit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it can mean either. If a tuner wants to get more power than sticking to strict spec would give, he can use the tolerances to get everything optimised. However, you could also build to strict spec to make sure everything is exactly as the designer intended. I think both could be described as blueprinting.
I would call that balancing but words change in meaning over time, so I guess that's what blueprinting has come to mean.
If the small (generator support bearing) has failed or well on its way. The main bearing have gone I'm afraid. If your mechanically minded/sympathetic. Remove the generator cover. And see if you can feel any float in the crank. By either trying to move it up and down by hand. Any play will be small. Or. Very carefully with a lever try and lift the flywheel with you finger pinched between the flywheel and the cases to detect any movement. Good luck.
