Well, it has gone off to be stripped for investigation. Interestingly enough, I have found they changed main bearing design in later models. Newer models have different bearings with extra retaining clips. I'll be down there next week to see the bastard bearings and meet up with the investigator and chat with the workshop.
2013 models onwards. Basically Twin-Spark onwards. Can't see any reason the Twin-Spark would require different bearing design as the bearing is working with the same shaft. Twin-Spark seems to have the same bottom end apart from this bearing change.
So, could this mod be applied to older bikes with the previous bearing or does the case not allow it? Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
That's bad luck.. sorry for you. Next to my Pani I have two KTM's as well. These machines are so well build and reliable..
I'm waiting to hear the answer to that. Crank cases do have a slightly different part number but that could be for another reason. I'm also waiting to hear as to wether the actual 2010-2012 bearing has an upgraded part number anyway, regardless of twin-spark. I've heard a rumour if you try and order the original bearing, you will actually get a newer bearing anyway. Trying to get confirmation of this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't get too hung-up or too involved with the bearings. It's certainly interesting to know and worthwhile drawing it to the other parties attention but don't start insisting that they replace OE fitment part A with some other part. Just let them get on with it and replace whatever with whatever. If Ducati do send an alternative part then that's great, make a note of it and share that info, but don't make demands of a particular part. The reason I say this is if you stray from the Ducati specified item and for whatever reason you end up with a similar issue further down the line, you don't want them to say "well we fitted what you specified, so now you're on your own". Let them repair it in their own way, because if it goes wrong again it's all their own work and parts and there is no grey area - they will be entirely liable.
I was never going to specify, i'm getting shot once it's done so frankly don't care. It does beg the question of why they changed bearing though. @pl2112 mentioned they'd been using the same bearing designs for decades. Maybe the 1200cc showed the flaws in that bearing and they found it couldn't cope as well as it should so they updated the design for newer models. I've been doing my research on bearing failures and the wear signs that show the cause of the failure. I'll be all prepared for next weeks assessment.
From the 2010 workshop manual: The main bearings are of the angular contact type with offset inner races so that the balls transmit loads from one groove to the other along straight lines at an angle to the axis of the bearing. The angle contact ball bearings are designed for bearing combined loading (radial-axial loads). Bearings of this type can bear thrust loads in one direction only. In fact, under the action of a radial load inside the bearing, an axial force is created that must be counterbalanced by an axial force acting in the opposite direction; that is why these bearings are generally fitted back to back in pairs. Note The main bearings supplied can be bearings with bushing (A) or flanged bearings (B) with the bushing integrated in the external ring of the bearing.
Yep, read all that. Also noted with interest the part that reads "When overhauling an engine it is good practice to renew all the crankcase half bearings." Now, what constitutes "overhauling". When I had my first engine snap a cam and eat itself, would it have been Ducati advised "good practice" to renew all the crankcase half bearings. That may have led to the tech looking at the main bearing.
Also, in my industry, I can't think of a bearing that is not held in by a retaining clip yet in the early multis there is nothing but the crank case itself and a flanged end to hold it. Could twist motion not be slowly applied causing the bearings to not run true to each other. This would then be a quick spiral into failure (you would see rotational marks on the outer bearing surface from it not being held tight enough). We have seen this in the past on machines that use bushings rather than bearings, you end up with a bearing with an elliptical hole being worn and a terrible racket.
@JH1986 If your first blow up was a snapped cam it probably just had a "top end" rebuild and they quite likely didn't dismantle the crankcases to save a few bob. You are right it would have been good practice to have done it though. The crankcase and crankshaft are more than adequate to hold the main bearings in place without circlips or retaining rings. In fact they wouldn't do much because shims have to be fitted to achieve 0.3mm pre-load on the bearings. In your industy (photocopiers I believe) bearings are often fitted into plastic mouldings or light aluminium die-castings and use plain shafts that require clips for axial location, so not nearly the same application. We can analyse and speculate about the basic design all we want but I don't doubt Ducati's ability to design major engine components such as these, they use tried and tested methods that have been in use probably since the 30's. As Bradders says there will always be small incremental changes. In my view the basic design is not fundamentally flawed and you are an unfortunate victim of bad luck and circumstance most likely as a result of contamination from the first blow up. Having said all that let's hope the right thing is done by you and it gets sorted.
Having just had email notifications turned off by the lovely Tezza, I feel I can jump in on this thread without fear of blowing my inbox to bits. Firstly, really sorry you motor has eaten itself. Re this: I'm not sure I can agree. Something is going on with this model. There are just too many similar failures at about the same mileage. I can't see that it's load on the bearings from the increase of capacity (to 1200) as the 1098 and 1198 motors don't suffer the same problems and they're arguably worked harder. To me, the issue must either be in the motor, or the rider. The style of riding a Multi is different to the sportsbikes with the same bearing and maybe that's the issue. Re the 'KTM are bulletproof' concept, I had a 950SM eat itself. Great bike. A little underpowered, a little lacking in character compared to a Ducati, but an incredible bit of kit.
Don't know if you'll be ok but yes, the bearing design is different. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
To set the cat amongst the pigeons ref later bikes, mine developed a rattly vibey noise on the left side of the engine where the water pump is. It only used to be apparent at idle when at lights or when stopping. It's a 2014 PP, only covered 10k, before I owned it it had 2500 miles on it and had already suffered from a porous cylinder head. All the work has been done under warranty but the engine build meant the dealer had it for 8 weeks over the summer. I was away at work for 6 of those weeks but still. I've traded it in now for a speed triple and some cash because I want a simpler, cheaper bike. It's actually better to ride than the multi but that's subjective and argumentative on a Ducati forum!! The dealer is Riders in Bridgwater and to be fair they have been very good, when I called in for them to listen/ look at the bike they immediately said don't ride it anymore. The tech there I think is James and seemed very thorough. It's had new bearings, some gears on the water pump side and a new crankshaft. It will probably go on forever now but I'm afraid I've been put off Ducati even though when it worked it was good to ride but I can't justify these top end prices if the product doesn't deliver on reliability and build quality.
