Question - would an Ignitech system stop the chugging/snatching drive I get below 3k? Im not expecting snatch-free all the way down to say 1,500rpm, that would be too much - usable drive from 2k would be good?
Assuming you have a carby most likely worn carbs/emulsion tubes/needles .. though even when they were new they snatched under 3k revs so dont spend too much on old carbs. best save for FCRs!
Probably just as much as just setting fuelling on dyno. I guess setting up timing, fuelling, balancing carbs and proper head setup would cure it but it will not be perfect. Saying that I can cruse along at 2k just not accelerate.
So are we saying that, even with the pick-ups backed off 3 degrees (giving a base advance of 3 btdc), we should be avle to restore the fully retarded value to 6 btdc by telling the Ignitech that the base is 3 and that we want the first increment to be 6? I'm not really happy using the stock fully advanced figure with the hi-comps and haven't a clue when I'll get my unit back from Czecho but am also getting bored moving the pick-ups about. I'd like to think I could back off the timing when I drop the oil at the weekend (at which time I'll consider the pistons bedded in) and not have to do the whole thing again before I refit the Ignitech. Cheers Brilliant discussion, btw. Just what I was hoping for. Any cunning fixing locations?
My fix for the low speed running was replace worn needle jets,clean carbs, set valve clearances,1/4 turn richer on pilot,balance carbs, ignitech with softer advance bottom end, dynacoils,taylor leads,ngk plugs gapped at 50thou. Not perfect but much better.... Indiecourier, I need to take some pics for you.....Mike
[TABLE="class: page, width: 100%, align: center"] [TR] [TD][TABLE="class: tborder, width: 100%, align: center"] [TR] [TD="class: alt1, bgcolor: #EFEFEF"]The Ignitech units appear to be sensitive to what coils you are using particularly from idle to about 3000 rpm. My previous single out put Dynatech coils appeared to work better with the Ignitech unit with a longer dwell time. I suspect this could also be true of the standard coils partnered with the Ignitech as well. My problems with low rpm stutter and misfiring weref urther exacerbated when I converted my bike to twin spark heads using twin output coils which are harder to drive than standard coils. They needed an even longer dwell than my previous single out put coils to get them working best at low revs. My findings are a bit strange because the Ignitech should be able to drive the primary windings of coils harder than the Kukasans....but try my recommendations below and see how it works for you. BTW the 3 ohm Dynatech mini coils turned up side down will bolt directly onto the standard coil mounting posts of the 91-98 SuperSports. Don't worry about them being only 3 ohms. Their inductive reactance seems to be high enough to not cause any problems with the Kukasans or the Ignitech unit. Try these changes in the miscellaneous tabs page. Set "dwell dynamic addition" to 30 Set "maximum dwell time" to 20,000 us (yes I know it seems over the top but you can cut back this figure later). set "max rpm for dwell by lobe" to 800 (if you don't do this the change in the line above won't have any affect at revs below what ever value you have in this field). If this works for you and gives you crisp low rev running, then incrementally reduce the "max dwell time" untill low rpm running begins to suffer. Also worth doing before you do the above is measure the voltage between the positive wire on your coils and the earth terminal on your battery while your bike is running. This should be between 13.8 volts and 14.4 volts (the same as measured directly across the battery terminals). If it's not (and it won't be - typically only 11.5 volts) then install a relay to provide power to the positive terminal of your coils directly from the battery. Actually this usually gives worthwhile gains even with the Kukasans and standard coils. This trick understandably works particularly well on engines fitted with high compression pistons due to it being harder to strike a spark in a higher compression environment. I learned this trick from a customer's who discovered it. (Thanks Will!) Also try setting base advance to match your fly wheel pick up point. You can measure this by putting the Kukasans back in and checking base timing with your timing light. Note the 32 degrees max advance written in the Ducati manuals is wrong for the 900cc engines. Maximum standard advance with the Kukasans is actually 36 degrees. Oh and two last things the Ignitech units are susceptible to confusion and permanent failure from EMI. Due to installers not doing both of the following to negate this issue these units have a worse reliability reputation than they deserve. ALWAYS use resistive plugs or caps or leads with the Ignitech unit ALWYS place the Ignitech Unit away from you coils and spark plug leads Once you get your head around the Ignitech units I think you will be extremely impressed. It would really help if they got someone to rewrite their instruction guide for them and add a bit more detail and a clear explanation of things like the dwell options. Happy to try and answer any further questions but still experimenting and learning like everybody else. [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
Sweet man I have recently moved my ign unit to left side so sparkplug cable touches the unit will make sure it is moved away and experiment later on rest.
I've been doing a lot more playing with the Ignitech TCI-P4 units and discovered a lot more stuff to add to my earlier post in this thread. Here is a quick summary of some key things I have discovered. It's easy to corrupt the map without knowing it. I recently created a fresh new map and config on a unit in stock which was IDENTICAL to the one I was running on the bike. I swapped the units over and suddenly got much crisper running. So I sucked the map off the new unit and downloaded it onto the old unit which I then reinstalled in the bike .....and suddenly the engine ran much much better on the old unit. Ignitech recently released some new firmware for the units a while back that you can load into an earlier unit using a boot loader. The new firmware has a number of new features and again seems to make the bike run marginally better. You can get this new firmware free from Ignitech if you ask. (it's not downloadable from their web page). The new features are currently undocumented in the current manual...more on this in a moment. Ignitech's seem to be more tolerant of poor/weak pick up signals than the original Kukasans. We found this out by doing some back to back testing on one customers bike that ran badly on known good Kukasan units. Which seems to be one of several reasons some bikes run soo much better with the Ignitech units. The original pickups on the old carby Ducati 900s were probably marginal in performance when they were new and now they are over 10 years old. Even if the resistance of these test OK they can be problematic. I suggest to get the best out of them that you mount them closer to the flywheel than the factory specs recommend. I have just done this on a bike where we could see with a tester had intermittent and weak pulses coming out of the pickups and the difference in performance was an absolute revelation. I am currently rewriting a new unofficial Ignitech manual from an editable copy of the original that Jiri at Ignitech sent me in an attempt to: improve the English! add explanations on how it works (pieced to gather by assumptions and information I requested from Ignitech), add more detail, document the extra features that the new firmware gives you access to. E.g. It is now possible to get more advance and fire the spark plug before the leading edge of the lobe. Before maximum advance was limited by the length of the lobe on the flywheel. Many people think that the maximum advance you can run before you get pre-ignition or detonation will give you the maximum power. This is absolutely erroneous and I am finalizing a theory section on this to be an appendix to the manual (it's a fairly technical section - so best to put it in an appendix) If anyone wants a free copy of the new unofficial manual ( complete with errors and incorrect assumptions - no doubt) they can email me and I will send it to them. I am will also be sending my revised version back to Jiri at Ignitech so it is possible they will adopt parts of it into their official manual.
Just contacted people from ignitech re update. If you have older v75 unit no updates, I am one of them.
I fitted a TPS sensor in the weekend to my FCR carbs, so now I can run a 3D map revs/throttle opening/advance. Theory is that I can now have my cake and eat it by having more advance at low throttle openings and then retard it at larger throttle openings. Theory says that with a 2D map you end up running a compromise, too little advance for part throttle openings and a smidgen too much advance at full throttle opening. Initially I just used my current 2D map as my full throttle advance curve and ran with thedefault 3D curve the Ignitech created from this. Results so far are VERY encouraging, bike is much keener at part throttle openings and during throttle roll on. Bike also seems much smoother. I am now going to pull the full throttle advance back a little at 7000 RPM to see if I can improve full throttle performance.
I cut a 'screwdriver' style slot in the end of the throttle shaft ...and made a short spindle to go between the throttle shaft and the TPS. I then mounted the TPS on a 1.6mm aluminium plate mounted to carb via stand offs. Turned out simpler to do than I thought it was going to be. Pic of the Hella TPS I used above.
Sounds good, are yours a pair of 'racked' carbs? because looking at the throttle shaft setup on my single carbs it doesn't look too easy to fit into or bolt onto - Pics would be good.
I have attached some pics below. Next time I have my carbs off I will take some better pictures of my set up so if people want they can copy it. You can also see the tiny Ultrabatt600 (with inbuilt BMS) I am using. I have relocated my coils to either side of the frame in the same location as on the later bikes to get better cooling to them and get them away from the pick up wires and IGNITECH unit which now sits in the battery box. I still need to tidy up the wiring you can see in the photo! Mine are a racked pair ( why does that sound so wrong!) Can you see the end of the throttle shaft as you can in the picture below of the singles? and if you can see the end of it you can cut a slot in it to drive off? Do you have pic of the end of your throttle shaft?
Basically looks the same although that part of the shaft sits close to (right behind) the frame rail so would need to see how thick the overall TPS/shaft/bracket is.
