@749er you have to admit in the cold light of day SCOTTISH NATIONALIST does set a particular tone. if there is one major positive that has come out of this is the fact we(the Scottish)have become a lot more aware of whats going on. i know plenty up here would have said S.N.P. freekin terrorists. not any more. i have experienced the misrepresentation by the press in oban, they where all up for a couple of days, i knew a few that had been interviewed all well informed and good talkers, i was looking forward to seeing them on the box, i only got to see one fella i regularly see hanging out at the lochavullin bar on my way home from work. hay, at least he was sober. maybe other channels put more balanced views out. maybe to early to say as most a still shell shocked but before all this kicked off, many would off been pro devo max. but because it wasn't offered people had to stop being mary's little lamb and go out a find out for them self's, unfortunately to many believed what the BBC told them. i had some serious doubts in his credibility after that news release. i thought i was starting to think i was loosing it after mentioning that one of the banks that had been quoted to moving to London where already there then shot down in flames on here, again i started to think the pro independence party's where trying to hoodwink me!. now there's many another up shots to all this. A. up until the day of the referendum my work was starting to suffer due to the amount of time i was wasting on here trying to convince people that didn't even have the vote. Why? lesson learnt. B. seems like me and the wife have a lot more to talk about. she had never voted before, never talked about politics before. but as it turned out she had been reading up on it and voted YES. nice one. C. my 9 and 6 year olds use words you wouldn't expect from kids that age, again nice one. D. SNP membership in the last few days have become just as big if not bigger than the the uk liberal party and way bigger than the Scottish labour party!. hopefully that can be maintained. E. there will be many including myself that wont be fooled again. down side, i cant listen to R.scotland or R4 anymore without getting angry so i have nip't that in the bud also.(apart. from Tam the football pundit.he still makes me laf out loud. so dude, dont give up, keep at it, dont get aggressive,dont bore people to death with it, just do what you can where you can, hopefully one day we will get another go at it. it was the pensioners that threw it, after what i experienced at my desk can you blame them. reassure them.
There's more than one positive to come out of the referendum Fin. The prospect of English home rule is a big one. If federalism comes about by default that will suit me just fine. For years the Labour party has cynically used its Scottish votes to gerrymander an artificial majority for itself in Westminster despite having overseen Scottish devolution and the establishment of the Scottish Parliament. If the SNP eclipse Labour in Scotland they will do an enormous favour to those English people who resent having unwanted socialist rule forced upon them just as fiercely as Scots resent rule from Westminster. I strongly support Cameron's call for English home rule but I don't trust him. He has a track record of making expansive promises and then reneging on them. Labour are the obstacle. If the SNP can take away their vote in Scotland there is nothing to stop English home rule. Mr Cameron will have no excuse not to produce the goods. And the establishment of an English Parliament would help the bring forward Scottish Independence without the drawn-out misery of a neverendum. More power to your elbow.
i don't necessary believe the ukip's stance on Europe, but lets work together start lobbying your MP's down there.get me my independence. you can buy our haggis and tartan, water and renewable's, we will buy your...ehm.. what do you guys make?. will put all the money in a big pot and fuck em all. i can be Scottish and proud you can be English and proud. sorted.:smile: i never really thought about the English having there own devolved government before. i just assumed if they controlled our budget they still had full control anyway. something else to ponder.
That was largely true before the first round of devolution and the creation of the Scottish Parliament, which Labour initiated hoping it would placate Scottish nationalism and create an inbuilt electoral advantage for them in Westminster. The first objective has backfired spectacularly and the second is blatant gerrymandering which cannot be allowed to continue. It is also worth remembering that however much Scots may hate the Tories now, Margaret Thatcher had 22 Scottish MP's. The Tory meltdown in Scotland is a relatively recent phenomena. And the idea of Tory governments forcing unwanted legislation on Scotland without democratic mandate is largely a folk memory from the Poll Tax fiasco. There hasn't been a Tory majority government since the Blair/Brown devolution so that scenario has not in fact occurred yet. If it were to occur the blame for that democratic deficit would lie firmly with the Westminster and Scottish Labour party. Both the English and the Scots have been shafted by Labour. Regardless of whether the political sympathies of our two countries differ our relations and the cause of democracy in general would be greatly enhanced by eliminating Labour's partisan constitutional meddling.
That is completely false. In the last eight general elections (1979, 1983, 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2010) there has not been a single one where your statement was true. In the three elections where Labour had an overall majority, it would still have had a majority even if there had been no Scottish MPs. There was no gerrymandering whatever. Many of your other unsupported assertions are also completely untrue, Gimlet, just in case anyone hadn't noticed.
Gimlet is right in what he says. You twist the facts Pete without those Scottish Labour seats things would be very different .For example after the last election there would have been no need for a coalition Government. The England vote was largely Tory after the balls ups of the Blair/Brown New labour administration.
Sorry, but Pete is correct. Since WW2, Scottish labour seats have never given labour a majority, with the exception of the short lived government of Harold Wilson. Personally, I have no more interest inEngland having a government foisted upon it than I do Scotland. I keep saying that independence for Scotland or even DEVO Max for Scotland would be the best thing that could ever happen to England. Both countries would get democracy. The reason the Labour Party set devolution up the way it is, is to give them a chance of running England. David Cameron has shafted Labour big time. Some say Salmond lost the referendum. Trust me, he didn't. Both he and Cameron played blinders will come out on top. Labour is about to be screwed in England by David Cameron's federal plan. Fair play to him if he manages this and keeps his promise to Scotland. If you think we still bear a grudge against Thatcher, you wait and see what's coming Labours way in Scotland. They are screwed. This morning on 5Live I was listening to my friend being interviewed about why he joined the Greens. "To drive labour out of Scotland" That is the general feeling here. Labour are fecked.
@finm Yip, I agree. Last Monday I was in inverness and met Danny Alexander. I told him I felt the term "nationalist" was offensive. We just want self determination, not ethnic cleansing FFS. There is a difference. Ma burd is English and and voted yes as did a few other English girls around here. How can they be nationalist. Scotland is not anti English. For a start we don't even have a derogatory term for English people, As per Labour, the BBC is also fecked. The bias they displayed was appalling. The list of those who won't go near them now goes longer by the day. Loads of people are cancelling their license. I know I will be. Hence the post above. I like England and English people so my advice is learn from want happened in Scotland and be aware Auntie BeeB is a propaganda machine North Korea will be proud of. Much if the MSM us the same. For the EU REFERENDUM, check out what they say for yourself from another source or two. I am not surprised many people think Salmond is anti English, that's the way the media portray him. It is not true though, as the clip above shows. When did you ever see a politician be applauded by journalists in a press conference? They applauded as they knew he was right and the BBC was complicit in actions which were against the rules. Be interesting to see how Police Scotland's investigation goes.
I didn't say Scottish votes had given Labour a majority, I said they had given Labour, post-devolution, an inbuilt electoral advantage in Westminster, by which I meant - but perhaps did not make sufficiently clear - a legislative advantage in the house, allowing the party when in government to push through legislation for England which English MP's , often including Labour ones, had voted against.
That is music to my ears and that is why I supported, in the most positive sense, a Yes vote. And I agree with you completely about the BBC.
