Hi All, This was my bike and what Ash has said so far (we're in communication by text and phone regularly) it seems to be exactly the same issue I had after the original build, the first time I had her out on track it had a misfire which seems to be suspiciously similar. The symptoms I had were a misfire at around 7250rpm which you could ease through on the throttle then it would clear from around 8000 until around 10250 where it felt like the limiter came in early. The problem I had to complicate matters was that during the build there were a lot of modifications that were done at the same time so the root cause analysis was not simple. I myself tried everything that a competent home mechanic can do, multiple ECU's and map changes, changed the TC cpu - twice, TPS replaced along with all the basic stuff, plugs, coilpacks etc. After all this but to no avail, I was really baffled so I drove from Scotland to Bristol to deliver it to Louigi Moto in Bristol because I trust Richard there and really respect his particular ability with tricky faults. This one turned out test even his skills, after months of diagnosis, lots more component changes (including the things I had already changed to rule out any potential 'Chris [me] effect'), multiple dyno runs on Chris Steadmans dyno (CJS is on-site at Richard's), even slave fitted a new wiring loom to rule out a wiring issue. This was where it so happened that Chris had just bought software/equipment that allowed him to look into the actual coding programmed in the CPU rather than just the fuel map so he started delving in there, after many more hours of work he found a line of code that the instructs the running software to look fo a signal from the clutch switch (we suspect this function is to reduce the potential for an over-rev with no load on the engine but this is just theorising?). He originally thought that this could not cause the issue as the bike didn't have a clutch switch fitted so the signal should be open-cicuit i.e. clutch not in, but when we had our 'weekly debrief' - "yes" it really got to this stage, and "yes" it really was as expensive as it sounds! - he brought up the finding of this clutch switch code and suddenly it clicked! I had fitted a Brembo billet clutch master cylinder which didn't have a facility to fit the clutch switch but I wanted to retain the ability to re-start a stalled bike in gear, so I had bypassed the switch with a link-wire to simulate the clutch in signal without even considering that this would influence engine running - why would it? Well it most certainly does and as soon as the link wire was removed, no misfire and running perfectly to the 10700 red line. This entire excercise cost me over 3 grand in parts, mechanic and dyno time all for a 20p piece of wire and two 10p spades. This previous experience, combined with the fact that it was running absolutely fine before the clutch lever change, to me points directly to the clutch switch system as the problem. With respect to some of the other points made on here: TC cpu mount- road 1098Rs have the TC module mounted within the rear seat fairing body, race body work, even expensive stuff, generally does not have the facility for this so on Ash's it is mounted on a painted ally plate in the correct orientation and angle on it's original rubber vibration/isolation dampers and was functioning perfectly during my ownership (this plate was also where my PCV and Autotune modules fitted during the original build were mounted but they were removed as part of the fault diagnosis and rever refitted as Chris mapped the ecu directly whilst at Louigi's) With respect to the clutch pack being 'fubar', when Ash bought the bike, he wanted a few other bits fitted as well, some of the bits I'd already taken off as it happens so I said that I'd refit them for him. I wanted to get the bike on a rolling road for a shake down prior to releasing it but Ash had a practice meeting coming up in Hungary that he wanted the bike for so had booked pick up the following Saturday. This agreement was made late on the Sunday but as I work away Mon to Friday, I had one evening (Fri) to do the agreed works with no oppertunity for a any real shakedown. I finished the refit at 4 in morning ready for the 10 o'clock pick up but managed to give the bike a quick run on the 'private' road outside my garage but I wasn't happy with clutch feel, it was too 'grabby' so I fitted the only spare (used) clutch pack I had available and finally finished at 5AM. I told Ash all about this and he accepted this as a risk but I reassured him if he had a clutch pack issue I would order and send him a new one. I would have ordered one and fitted it before it going away if we had the time. As it is, he has since bought a Sigma 48t item and earlier this week I offered to send him a set of new 48t plates for his spares pack in lieu of the original agreement. We have had other issues as well, as I had removed the exhaust system to change the rear shock to an Ohlins TTX instead of the already fitted Maxton GP10 so, as the pipework was off anyway, I decided to change the headers to another set I had that were in better cosmetic condition but I forgot to check that the factory test bung was fitted to the new parts so Ash had a exhaust gas leak that could have been a disaster had he not noticed. My fault entirely but it was 4 in the morning when I finished fitting the exhaust and would have also been spotted if I'd have had a chance to get it on the rolling road before despatch. Ash also had an error code on the TC Pod on his first practice day so I sent another one and replacement loom to him without delay, special delivery to his Munich office, again this would have been found on a rolling road shakedown if we had had the time. I am no charlatan and stand by anything I sell, Ash knows this and hope he is happy with the support I am giving him. He is a top fella and I hope he gets to the bottom of this issue asap because this bike has been absolutely fantastic in my ownership (once fixed!) and will certainlty propel him up the championship standings. Sorry for the long winded post but I don't want people to think I'm just some tosser who's flogged an old ringer of a bike and no longer cares about what happens whilst in the custody of it's new owner! I can assure you all that this is most certainly not the case. Chris
Thanks for that detailed post Chris, very interesting and what a bloody nightmare! Pesky electrickery.... To be honest, it would have had me stumped big time.
Hi again All, Just this minute had an update from Ash from trackside, new clutch has fixed the problem completely and he's just knocked 3 seconds of his previous best lap-time despite being on the wrong gearing! It makes sense now, if the clutch is slipping, the slip-map references between rear wheel speed and engine speed will be all out of kilter and it will knock everything back. The fact that it the slipping started at almost the same point in the rev range as before with the original problem was just coincidence and threw me completely (max torque on the R is at 7750 so its in the correct neighbourhood) also the fact that Ash had changed the clutch lever as well didn't help me either as I was fixated on the original issue I had!! He seem a happy chap now so we got there in the end!! Chris
She's cracking bike, I only sold her to finance a new engine for my race car otherwise I'd definitely have kept her.
Glad it's sorted out, but as to the original question - does the micro-switch on the clutch lever do anything that could cause a misfire, or not???
Most defintely! But ONLY if the switch fails in closed position or there's short circuit in the switch wiring (or you have put a bypass link in as I had in my scenario). It will cause the following: "misfire at around 7250rpm which you could ease through on the throttle then it would clear from around 8000 until around 10250 where it felt like the limiter came in early" If it fails in the open position or it is disconnected (more likely scenario) will NOT cause a misfire, all that happens is that you can start it in gear without pulling the clutch in (so you could fall off if you were not aware it was still in gear!)
OK, thanks. Is this peculiar to the 1098R ECU or do they all do it (in particular, would an 1198S do it)?
Interestingly the other half had a very similar issue lately with her K5 GSXR1000 not revving out. It turned out to be both a dodgy microswitch in the clutch lever (something I would never have expected to cause problems during running as it's not fly by wire etc as already discussed here) and secondly and likely more important a kinked fuel hose. It's all good now, I was very surprised about the clutch micro switch causing issues, if you'd asked me before I would have said it was just the fuel hose causing problems, but it definitely made a difference once the switch was cleaned up.
It's a 1987 911 turbo, heavily modified though (993 GT2 body shape, mostly in carbon/kevlar). I blew a piston at a trackday at Silverstone a couple of years ago and have been waiting for the suppliers to tool for up a new batch ever since then. They will only tool up when they have a minimum of 3 sets ordered in the books so effectively it means that unless a miracle happens and 2 other guys need the same race parts (which hasn't happen in over 2 years so far!) I need to buy 18 piston/cylinder sets to get the 1 spare I need! Needless to say this was starting to get right on my breasticles so when I had the offer of another engine at a 'reasonable' price I had to have it, hence the sale of my beloved track bike.
I couldn't be absolutely sure but it's probably in all of the 848/1x98 series as a function of the 5.AM ecu.
Wow, 993 air cooled? Or do they have water cooled heads like the 959? What a piece of kit you have there! I won't ask how much a track day costs... I've got a 997.2 turbo and I'm dying to do a trackday in it. Just scared I'll bust it... It's been tuned to circa 620hp so discs and pads a plenty after a trackday, gulp! Luckily not PCCB though.
Interesting. And what a great bike Mrs. Royal has! It's yet another bike I wish I still had... No spare floor space, doh!
Glad to read problem solved and thanks Chris/ @North996 for post #41, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a bike or car from you.
She actually has the K5 for her road bike and uses it for work every day all year round and has a K6 track bike
Off topic I know but! All aircooled, the bust engine is based on the original 3.3 lump but not alot of that remains std, quick summary: 3.5 big bore cyls/pistons Modded crank - knife edged polished etc Modded cases - shuffle pinned, boat-tailed Modded Carrera 3.2 heads - flowed, big valves, chambered to lower compression. 964 grind cams twin tubo conversion - hybrid k24 turbos, fabspeed headers, custom intercooler. Motec M800 ECU and a whole host of other suppoting mods. Dyno'd at 680 hp so was pretty potent (when not 'expired') New engine is a far more robust 3.6l 964 unit, again heavily modded and running a single turbo conversion, running about 500hp. I plan to install into the car initially 'as is' and get running perfectly then transfer the twin turbo gear onto the new engine and take it from there. Not too bad on costs, she only weighs 1080kg's and heavily 'overbraked' with 380mm on the front so no real wear issues on the hardwear just the usual consumables tyres, pads, fuel etc.
Amazing, what a weapon that must be! How the hell does the air cooled engine deal with all that heat generated from 600+hp? Are you running meth/water? I'd love to come and watch an event. Any calenders? I'm away a lot working. Cheers
