just got word from the painter that the seat will be ready to be put on this weekend! it won't be exactly how i wanted it it be but we'll see what it gives... if not, back to the shop after we get back from the UK trip !
but no no! he was lining himself up to jump me on the exit... that's the point i'll have to work on hard... .. tomorrow 999 track conversion planned ..
I just got confirmation from Steve at Moto Rapido that we can go see him and talk tuning and stuff and have a drool experience of the BSB and BSSTK bike they have.. .. what a couple of days it will be next week ! counting the hours !
the tailsection got in and installed... and i did it myself ! i' am 80% happy with it as to fit and finish ... View attachment 16872
No good me being in the presence of your bike kopey I'd jizzom all over it (sorry to lower the tone old chap) , you'd need an army of midgets to clean it. :biggrin:
To do list after Donington and Brands. Ok, now that the major esthetical issues are done with ( apart from some last bits to be bolted on) where do we stand with the development of the bike. So perhaps a roundup of issues is to be made. Nr 1 issue: as funny as it seems, the throttle is hard for to get fully open. It has to travel at least 15% too far down to fully open. And it is a well-known fact that for control reasons, the engine only starts giving a 100% response to the throttle above 70% opening. Looking at the DDA data from Brands, it shows I never had the throttle open for more than 73%! And therefore the average max rev was about 10K. Ducati being proud that the R will do 12K, that leaves 2K unused. And it shows. I did not outrun any other bikes on straights. This said, I wonder if I’ll be able to handle to whole cavalry when it shows up.. Nr2 issue : the power band between 5 – 10K. Let s be clear, even with some throttle mapping, the EVO pipe leaves quit a hole below 8K. And weighing more 70% than Pedrosa does not do much good to make me fly out of corners. Not only is there a hole, the rush of power between 7 and 11 is very 2 stroke like. The influx of horses is pretty brutal and far from easy to manage. This type of power delivery is the main issue when trying to choose gears for particular corners Nr 3 issue : the importance of riding gear. Not wanting to ‘overdo’ it, I came to the conclusion that ,as stated in a previous post, I’ll need a new racing suit and especially boots. Why, I found out that, after losing 19kgs and buying the boots ½ a size too tall , I do move but seem to be moving within my gear. I’m only transferring 50% of my body movement in actual movement on the bike. I also found multiple occasions when while accelerating, I skid backwards 6 cm before my suit to grip me. This translated in rough throttle management with some unwarranted surges as a result. Nothing disastrous , but still very much unwanted. It’s not a bad thing to be able to stay over the tank and not slid backwards on a bike that tends to wheelie in 2/3/4 just on the gas. And it feels like you’re hardly in control. I’m also sure that having a suit flapping around does the already tiny bubble and therefore fragile aerodynamics no good anywhere. For the boots : as my foot seems to be moving in the boot rather than making the boot move on a 1on1 relationship, it results in far too many gear change foul-ups as the right pressure is not always guaranteed. There is almost 1 issue every 2 sessions which, on track, is not to be had. So it’s off to the suit maker DAMEN next week. But that is the easy part. Perhaps the most important 2 hours of the UK days were spent in Winchester, with Steve Moore, the brains and chief behind the Moto Rapido BSB team. Steve had been so kind to invite us to the team to have a close look at the RS and Superstock bikes his team runs. Now, of course, such a visit is always a thing not to be missed, but Moto Rapido and Steve himself have quit a peculiar spot in the realm of Panigale development. With some ultra-interesting aspects that at first peep can be easily missed. Steve actually has been developing the Pani for BSB before Corse started prepping for WSBK. Add to that the fact that BSB does not allow for any electronic aids to assist the rider ( ABS/TCS/LC….) and having to make the wild RS rideable with those amount of power on tap, has given some very important and ultra-rare insights in setting this bike up. To the fore jumped 2 things: When does the power come in, and how to link power delivery through throttle control. To put the aim in simple terms: let’s find power way earlier and especially smoother and more controllable. The parts and items to do this have shown to be the exhausts and their subsequent engine and fuel mapping, throttle management to feather the power in and EBC to smoothen out the impact of the enormous pistons. There has been a lot of confusion on what pipes are now available for the Pani. For clarity reasons, it should be considered that 50% of these options are for the R only. There is no guarantee that all can be done on the base engines. There is a good chance, but no guarantee. Why? Because it is now generally admitted that for racing or intense track use, the R engine is the one to go for. Not for its power aspects , just for reliability issues. If you ride it hard, get some titanium internals. iow: get an R. So what are the possibilities to exhausts. To all: Street pipe + map ( = on the bikes when delivered) Termi slip ons + map ( add on ) Evo line ( full termi system with Ti cans) + map (replacement system – included with R package) For R only: Pro manifold ( same TI cans - 16CM + over EVO manifold – through the swing arm) – is in the DP accessories list ( 2K euros extra over Evo) with long wait. SBK manifold ( same TI cans – 30cm + over EVO manifold – bypassing the swing arm) – Corse access ( 3K 3 parts pipe / 6K euros full system) only and today considered as Unobtainium. When at Rapido, DHL just dropped such pipe with serial nr “002” on it.. Detail : the Titanium version of this pipe is Alstare only for the moment. A pipe, you can bolt on. A map you can activate but the key to get all this working together is the Superstock ECU. As this ecu lets tuners and racing engineers to bring all the aspects together. It let’s you set all parameters of the bike in different modes as it lets you reprogram the Riding modes from the bottom up. “You” here being an expert of Steve’s calibre. So what we will have to find out per bike is 1. What will the pro pipe bring us? We already know that the dip will get worse below 6,5K and but that the curve will steepen after that, bringing lots more power earlier. Will we go for the SBK pipe in the end as this seems to be THE way to go for anyone looking for 1198R/RS like grunt. 2. How do we shorten the throttle travel distance. For the moment the only immediate way it to go for the 800 euro RS throttle that carries expensive connections to be cut off and replaced with the stuff the stock R loom will take. The stock being 85°, the RS throttle travels only 60° and could therefore be too aggressive. Especially with the boomer pipes. Leaving the 85° and controlling the input simply by putting different settings electronically is considered not done as rolling off could become unmanageable. So do we have to mill some internals? Le’ts hope not. 3. Once we get the combo of pipe- its map – throttle sorted, then comes the programming of the throttle response per gear…. Issue 4 : set up. This bike has been steady as a rock but I did find it willing to shake it’s head under power. The way to go there looks as though it will be to put the settings of the swing arm to – 4 and stiffen the rear springs to wait. There the is the option to steepen the head to 23,5% and move it 5mm forward. This with some specific Corse parts .. something I will refrain from for the moment. She’s more than flickable enough for me. Once all this is done, then we’ll be able to say the bike will be at it’s very best. So quit some way to go. I’ll keep you all posted. Ps : it is estimated that , should the wsbk put the weight limits as they were in the 916/998 era, ti weight could be brought down to 155Kg… hmmm … Now who can make some Magnesium triples and rear swingarm? ….
All highly interesting, Kope, and thanks for sharing with us. Two thoughts spring to mind: 1. Are you willing to share what this little project has cost so far? I'm just curious as to what a ball park figure for such tuning comes to (+ the price of the base bike). 2. Seeing as the bike is getting almost professional racing treatment, is the rider thinking of getting the same thing: many miles of pushbike, gym and a diet of pasta? I imagine there is a good further 10 kgs to come here - which might be cheaper than more magnesium!
Glid , the rider already lost 19kgs to do this with exactly that reasoning behind it . Came from 110 kgs to 91 and feeling great, but that's how far it will go. I can run 25 minute sessions without mich pain so not too bad . As to budget , i make a point of nog talking money specifics on the web. Also you must make a difference with spending money on good items for a good price and losing money forever .. That is why sourcing te parts cleverly will make this serious or you can get it to ludicrous levels.. I ve seen bikes wit less spec with 90K+ pricetags. That to me is ludricous by a long shot.. I ll be no where near a RS by a very very long shot .. let's say i'm in "Desmo + some bits" -land... Hope this cures your curiosity
19kg is a phenomenal achievement! Well done! Thanks for the ball park expense indication. Yes, that does satisfy my curiosity. My view on these things is that if you've earned your dosh you should be able to spend it in any way that you see fit and spending some of it on a track bike project seems perfectly reasonable to me!
there seems no easy solution for the throttle issue. So, as it stands, the only solution is an RS throttle that will reduce the 85° turn/twist distance to 60°. this will then have to be dialled in per gear to make it manageable.. we could reduce max output to pe 70% in first, 80% in second and then full in 3/4/5/6. we can then also set how much increase there is per 10° of turn.. interesting may be to keep 30% of power in the last 15° ... we're waiting anxiously to see whether we could get a SBK Pipe and sell the Pro through. this may be the finale combo to get the bike at it's max. The SBK pipe is roumored to get rid of the Pani 'dip' reinstalling the 1198RS punch low down.. we'll see.. In the mean time we solved the suit issue by going for a tight Damen race suit and some Daytone EvoIII GP boots i got for a bargain... should have it end of august. the bike is going on the dyno for a run tomorrow to see what the remapping did and then up to Ohlins for setup... we'll get there in the end!
Is this what Rapido are up against trying to get he race bike to work or do all the modern bikes have similar issues?
I think development has shifted hugely to electronics .. Especially bsb with it s motec imposed kit means MR has to develop EVERYTHING themselves . And then without any help from TCS to control any power found. Steve has gone one mighty long way , especially without te funding ( read manpower) of the big teams . And all this on a bike the factory outfit is just getting to know .. It s an adtounding effort and i m sure one of the most advanced pani programs worldwide. That s why it is so fascinating to talk to him. And fun .
Ducati now states clearly that any part coming from Corse ( a seperate company) will make the warranty void. the SBK line is a Corse product, not a DP product. The question we put before them : what about the ZARD and other systems? waiting for the answer now... we now hear that the clutch may need reinforcing (tougher plates) with the PRO giving more oomphh at 6500 revs... and so the story continues...
