Sorry @John W for the hijack. Maybe @PGP can help, both in what tools are needed and/or doing the rebuild for you
John W my take on your questions. You will have to mark the cams before taking them out. The bores are electroplated. There have been several threads on here about getting bores replated. There is a firm which is recommended by a few. Buy your new piston and rings and send it with the barrel and they refurb to suit the piston. Give dukedesmo a shout I think he has used them. I know on a 916 you can get to the big end bolts with the barrels removed but I never tried removing them can't see a 1200 being any different except the holes will be bigger As for removing the head I would think if you remove the engine bolts and pivot it down around the swingarm bolt you could get enough room. If not just pull that bolt and your engines out
Presently sitting with a stripped 1098 where the piston fell apart. Technically the 1200 multi is a 1198 with mods i.e 11degree overlap but essentially the same technically I believe. I bought a HEDSA cam looking tool which I marked accordingly for horizontal and vertical cylinder. Manufactured a crows foot socket for removing the heads. Apart from that wasn’t a problem to dismantle all the head parts and remove the barrels. Barrels sent to Langcourt for replating at a total cost of £275 and OEM pistons around £600. Barrels replated to ideal fit for my piston. Personally don’t think you need to remove engine only bodywork, radiator, exhaust, course air box and throttle bodies. Air box easily removed complete with throttle bodies and in my case throttle cable. After these parts removed easy access to heads etc. You can access the con rod bolts etc from the holes in the crankcase. Think carefully before you purchase the top end gasket kit. It comes with camshaft seals which account for around £60 of the already £330 kit. To replace these seals you need to remove the elastic nuts which do require a special tool to lock and remove the nuts and you must replace them adding another £35. Carry this out whilst head still on engine. Tools I was given so don’t know his much they cost. Don’t believe ducati shops réplace this seal but simply use three bond when refixing if they need to alter shims. Personally it’s now been over 10 weeks waiting on parts from ducati so hopeful you’re not in a rush. I have a thread relating to engine service on this forum which contains pics.
Thanks guys. No worries on the thread high jack, I am with you all on the ability to work on newer stuff, and on the porch front too. I had a 993 for a long time and it was great, but still has its own issues. I replaced it with a 997 turbo which is awesome. That too has funnies, and the air con on mine is not great at present so I guess I may need a new condenser some time soon. Back to the bike, thanks guys for the information. All the dealers are rammed with work, and it's a 12 bike (regd dec13) so beyond warranty. Interesting point regarding the rings being changed to reduce oil use. I wonder if the rings are the same on the 15 on bikes, the barrel kit gas a different part number, as I assume the casting for the dvt is different in some way. I wonder if they now sell the rings individually though, or only as a set. Geoff, thanks for the info on the gasket set. Head gaskets look feckin expensive for what they are. The multistrada gasket set is 280, which is the same price as head and Base gaskets. Not sure what else is in this kit. I don't intend to get into taking the heads apart unless I absolutely need to, although checking clearances would be worth while, while they are off, since the desmo service is only 3k miles away. I am aware of langcourts, I have used them for other bikes hence asking if the bores are plated. That is definitely an option if it's not too bad. I will check out the cam locking tool and special socket. I hope I don't need to split the bottom of the engine, that depends on what I find... Panels are off the bike ready to do the compression check this afternoon.
Yep, stupid is, as stupid does Both cylinders 170psi, front plug oily, rear plug biscuit brown. My bet is on the front cylinder
Initially when I discovered bits of aluminium in mesh filter I asked for some help from various ducati techs I know. Anyway the general feeling was it’s always the horizontal cylinder that goes. In my case bike ran just as normal and carrying out yearly service found the bits. Fortunately I removed the mesh filter as non magnetic parts and would not be picked by magnet in sump plug. Carried out compression test and tested fine. I did find an anomaly during leak down testing with around 8% difference between horizontal and vertical cylinder. Did purchase a quality leak down tester which although pricey worked a treat both for my monster rebuild and 1098. Great thing about leak down as you can isolate leak. You don’t have to turn engine over which doesn’t load the sprag. Easy way is apply 100psi which is ideal for percentage results and measure differential pressure. Whilst applying pressure and with exhaust and throttle bodies removed you can check for leaks simply by listening. In the case of the rings/barrels remove the oil fill plug. Large amount of hissing gives you some idea of what’s failing. In my case I manufactured a base plate for fixing both heads including gaskets allowing to check all reground and lapped valves along with torqued head and correlates well with my vacuum check on lapped valves. I have access to my own workshop machine tools so always do things to extreme but personally with some basic tools and ability you should be fine. It’s not the black art everyone goes on about assuming you have some practical ability and a desire to learn. It’s your own bike and assuming you have time you will always show more care compared to a tech working to a time clock.
Sorry to hear this John.....first thought as this is (appears to be) the second time you've had ring failure on successive Multis.....what do Ducati have to say?! Have a browse/post on Ducati.ms......I remember way back a guy doing an engine rebuild (for performance not repair) with plenty of discussion on alternative piston etc etc. Being more of a worldwide membership (although not nearly as good a forum as this ) you're may be more likely to find guys with the answers you need. Another option to self rebuild may be to go to an independent Ducati expert such as LouigiMoto. Good luck! Edit: for starters..... https://www.ducati.ms/forums/44-multistrada/312769-mts1200-performance-engine-work.html
I'm getting close to wearing rags and eating pot noodles with the 911 ownership if I dont start selling stuff instead of buying it! Cheap Chinese parts are just not an option on a GT3 and especially when you need to make sure the dealer would be happy to take it back if the finance gets to be too much of a struggle!
Agree entirely about the cheap chinese parts (e.g. OEM Ducati radiators). But when dealer quotes you £1100 for new front discs and pads (fitted) when you can get a full Brembo set for £270, and fitted for another £70, that falls heavily into taking the piss… …even I can't drink £700 worth of 'complimentary' Porsche coffee whilst waiting for a job to be done.
Interestingly I've just been quoted on front brakes. Where can you get discs and pads for £270 as that sounds ridiculously cheap?? I've been quoted £1195 for PFC race pads and discs plus it was £275 of labour. I dont mind paying the labour since Paragon have looked after me well and the cost of the pads and discs is straight off of the manufacturers website anyhow. These guys have a bit of a deal but it's still similar prices: https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod...ads-PACKAGE-for-Porsche-991-GT3---981C-GT4_2/ *** sorry for thread hijack OP!
Think he was talking about bike discs. But my searching for goodies suggests design911 are at the expensive end of retailers.
No, verifiable Brembos for a 997.2! And yes, design911 are at the expensive end - they also manage to screw up orders quite comprehensively. Mine is a standard C2S - I've noticed that anything for either a GTS with centrelocks or a GT3 is dramatically more expensive.
Porsche: My 993 came from Paragon, good bunch of guys. Agreed design911 are a bit spendy. Check out porscheshop and type911shop. Both are cheaper than design911. Ducati: Geoff, thanks for your additional info, much appreciated. I did think about doing a leakdown test, but to be honest the fact that it is burning oil means I need to get into the engine anyway. I am hoping the valve seats must be good (might be short sighted or just optimism ) I have considered other ways in which it could be burning oil. All require the head and barrel off. Hi AndyW. I havent bothered to speak to the dealer or Ducati UK. The bike is a 2012 bike registered December 2013, and now some way out of its extended warranty. The likelihood of getting any good will would only happen if worked on by a main dealer. I flatly refuse to contact the supplying dealer (long story) and others I have contacted (and trust) are flat out for the next 3 months, so wont entertain taking on an engine rebuild at the moment. Thanks for the link, I am doing a bunch of trawling and reading at present, as you would imagine. I did buy the new rear barrel with piston that was posted on the 1st page, not least because it was cheaper than just a new piston. I will investigate alternate sources of bits, but at the moment I'm holding off doing anything. It seems everything is going tits up at once (ktm dirt bike in bits, just done tpms sensor update on Porsche, other car having aircon fixed this week, wifes car in on Thursday for warranty work ) I have bought a crows foot spanner for the head bolts. Currently checking out what else I might need. now a couple more questions: - Can I simply mark the cams, or do I need to lock them ? I have seen the front cylinder cams have a tendancy to rotate, so want to ensure I dont do any damage (e.g. valve to piston contact) - is it possible to do the valve clearances with the heads off ? If it is, I could potentially save a bit of labour by giving a dealer the heads only to deal with (if I need to move it along quicker and they can do them). - are the small end a push fit in the rods, or are they press fitted ? I might as well replace both big and little end bushes, not sure I need to replace the rods though, especially having seen what they cost... Started dreaming about other bikes, not a good sign
Forgot to say - Royal - changing the discs and pads is a piece of p!ss. What is their hourly rate now ? I would be tempted to do them myself, or go to a trusted local guy who charges a lot less, and spend the saved 275 quid of labour on a weekend away. There are no specialist tools required, just a bit of time.
Cheers guys, reminded me I forgot to order this morning!! Yeah I'm just going to get some new PFC pads and use my existing discs for Spa next week, and get them fitted around the corner as turns out there's an ex Porsche mechanic there Paragon have been super good dealing with issues so I'm happy to spend a bit extra on labour to keep things sweet. They even agreed it's a good idea to get the pads fitted locally and catch up with them later for the discs so all good there and nice to know they have a good attitude.
A bit of advice, don't be tempted to keep the track pads in. I made that mistake, they make huge amounts of dust and I had tide lines of dust down the side of my car. Had to give it a real going over with rain-x and then clay it. Enjoy spa, we used to do it every year but not been for a while, cracking track
