Blimey! I wonder if BKS Made-to-Measure’s new 100SX textiles are any cheaper? Though I hesitate to use “cheap” and “BKS” in the same sentence £2k is prohibitively expensive for most of us, but I guess BKS leathers last for decades. And Dainese was charging £1.5k for an (off-the-peg, not made-to-measure) D-Air Misano jacket.
When you compare the design, materials, construction, fit and finish of a set of BKS to pretty much anything else available today, I honestly think it is clear why they cost more than any others. And they get better the more critically you look. That translates into the highest level of protection possible from the basic leather suit. Advances including airbags and armour have made it a lot easier for other manufacturers to pass CE accreditation and to provide effective protection, but I believe the integrity and resilience of a set of BKS Leathers in a crash remains unparalleled since Crowtree Leathers closed
@Jon Wright I’m sure you’re correct, and BKS is considerably better than Dainese, etc. Though I have struggled to discern much difference between Hideout and BKS (except for a comment that BKS finishes its suit liners better?). I’m afraid it’s not these advances that have made CE accreditation easier. Unfortunately, it’s the EU lowering the CE standard Have we taken a step back in rider safety? The problem withy CE standards “BikeSocial has discovered that the testing standards now used to certify motorcycle riding kit have reduced protection levels by as much as 90 per cent.”
Bennetts found the new CE standard’s highest rating (AAA) required 80-89% less abrasion resistance than the previous standard (EN 13595 Level 2). Thus, the EU has lowered the abrasion resistance standard considerably. Also, incredibly, the old standard’s lower protection rating was better than the new standard’s highest rating! (The new AAA rating requires 65-80% less abrasion resistance than the old Level 1 standard.) It’s a triumph of European manufacturers’ lobbying over rider protection It’s no problem if you can afford BKS M2M or Hideout because they make their clothing to Cambridge University’s High-Performance standard (top-level protection). But the new, lower CE standards are unhelpful for everyone else.
That surprises me. They are quite different up close. I guess dIfferent experiences of the makers over the years lead to different solutions for panel size, cut and type of seam used in particular areas. FWIW an example- shoulder detail from a couple of “traditional” race suits L to R A.M. Leathers BKS Hideout Crowtree
Thanks @Jon Wright I don’t know anyone who’s had gear from both BKS and Hideout, so I’d be grateful for your thoughts on how they compare. I’ve been weighing up Hideout vs BKS vs Scott Leathers for a jacket. My pants are Hideout, and I had a Scott Leathers jacket (I regret selling it). Both were very well-made. But if customer service matters, Hideout was better on this front.
@Freerange_egg Both make excellent quality leathers that do a good job but I do feel that BKS will protect a little better in a crash for reasons including the leather quality, seam choice, panel design, fit and finish. They are a little heavier but more supple, the overlayering design panels are more part of the leathers, not an apparent afterthought, the velcro tags are better designed and lie flatter, the zip feels stronger. But that does not fully capture the difference or justify the extra cost. I think there is just something about owning really nice hand-made stuff that means you get more out of them. I guess it is the same with Patek vs. Omega, Lobb vs. Church’s, Purdey vs. Beretta, Alvis vs. Morgan… (chance would be a fine thing!) it is the small detail stuff, and however closely you inspect with BKS, they are the without doubt the work of a skilled craftsman at the top of the game. I use my BKS and Crowtrees most often. Hideout generally stay on the hanger (and the Furygans sit unloved in a drawer) I would equate Scott with A.M Leathers, (Steve from A.M. used to work for Scott) for basic good quality workmanship. (A.M. are underrated and a bit of a bargain IMO.) Jon
I’ve got a Scott 2 piece, I was so pleased a couple of years later I went back and bought a 1 piece, both made to measure, both fit like a second skin. They’ll produce to your design. Good stuff, well made, solid stitching but I can’t say I’ve crash tested them. Having looked at the Dianese gear I think Scott is better made and it’s cheaper to get a made to measure set from them as opposed to an off the peg Dianese. Actually I’d say really good gear, underrated. Anyone wanting a suit would be well advised to get to the London bike show this weekend and get them to measure you there. Jim is the owner, get him to measure you. Check they are exhibiting, they usually are there.
I don’t want to cast aspersions about current status of their business (seems stable for the last 10 years) or rake up the past, but if I was buying from Scott, I would be careful how much money I put down without having the finished leathers in my hands.
Weren’t Scott’s financial difficulties over 10-11 years ago? (But you can always check Scott Custom Ltd on Companies House.) I bought a Scott Leathers jacket (superb quality) and would happily buy from them again. IMO, the quality’s considerably higher than Dainese, Alpinestars, etc. Just don’t expect a loquacious service from Jimmy Aird (he’s a man of few words ) at Scott. IME, Hideout’s communication and customer service are better.
Like textiles? Finally, I visited BKS and Hideout and tried on their textile clobber. Here’s what I found for the textile aficionado. TLDR: I don’t think there’s a wrong choice except Rukka. If you want direct-to-body ventilation or an integrated airbag, BKS nudges it, but Hideout is slightly less spendy. I agree with @Jon Wright about BKS loveliness. However, Hideout’s forthcoming mesh clothing with an integrated D-Air airbag could be highly desirable if you can afford dedicated clothing to cope with the Annual British Heatwave (global warming, innit?). You’d be a mug to buy Rukka. Hideout can be cheaper than some Rukka stuff, and BKS Made-to-Measure prices are around top-end Rukka. However, BKS and Hideout gear are miles better quality than Rukka. Miles. You can only have two out of three: protection, comfort, or affordability. I found Hideout Hi-Pro and BKS textiles incredibly comfortable and surprisingly lightweight. They felt lighter than less protective textiles such as Rukka. Hideout and BKS have achieved the ultimate protection standard (EN 13595 Level 2, which is much more protective than AAA). BKS can incorporate up to ten (!) vents; Hideout’s Hi-Pro has fewer vents but directs air under your armpit to improve cooling. BKS is ahead of the ventilation game as their textile is a single-layer for direct-to-skin air circulation. However, Hideout also offers Concept Air textiles that aren’t waterproof but highly vented. Too sexy for my bike? Hideout offers a combination of black and grey colours, plus your choice of coloured piping. BKS offers your choice of black, grey and red, plus it can print any design you like onto the textiles. What about armour? BKS provides Betac Level 2 protectors as standard, but you can upgrade to armour with more coverage, D30, or supply your own. Hideout provides D30 Level 2 as standard, but, like BKS, you can use any armour you choose. What are my airbag options? BKS is the UK’s Tech-Air centre and can incorporate Astars airbags. The Tech-Air Race incorporation in a jacket is the best I’ve seen from any manufacturer – distributing the weight so you hardly feel it. Hideout used to offer InMotion airbags until this system failed to work in several crashes, and it looks like Hideout is becoming an official D-Air supplier instead.
Not wishing to start an argument but on what basis do you maintain the quality is ‘better’ than Rukka? Is it protection, materials, comfort, waterproofing?
I cannot sing Kate and her Team's praises high enough. I've crash tested her kit.. and will probably be buried in Hideout. Nuff said
Everything about Hideout and BKS textiles is way better than Rukka: materials, comfort because they're made-to-measure and lighter weight textiles than Rukka, construction and craftsmanship (made in Britain, not in China like Rukka), and protection. Hideout and BKS textiles are the only textiles currently on the market that have achieved the absolute highest protection level (EN 13595 Level 2) in independent tests. They are massively more protective than Rukka. While its XTR armour is excellent, Rukka’s abrasion resistance can be among the worst on the market (e.g. the Rukka Nivala 2 only musters a CE A rating, the lowest possible protection score). I have had gear from all three brands, but there’s no going back to Rukka having tried Hideout or BKS.
I got married in my Hideout leathers almost 20 years ago. This summer I decided it was time to loose some weight - about 4st, which I did on time for my birthday at the beginning of this month. As a BD present I got myself another MV F4 and needed the leathers again to match. The bike and myself are showing our ages, but the leathers look just broke in.
You could easily counter that with, rukka do so many sizes that you'd have to be a very odd shape not to be abler to get a good fit off the peg. Rukka also do a stretch Gortex which is extremely comfortable.The safety standards are somewhat misleading as well, I genrally only use textiles in winter for that reason.
Indeed, the safety standards aren’t perfect, and every crash is different. But there’s no excuse for Rukka clothing doing quite so poorly (e.g. the latest Rukka Nivala gets a CE ‘A’ rating, the lowest score possible). MotoLegends defends Rukka by arguing abrasion resistance doesn’t matter. However, their bigger seller is the Rukka Nivala
