I think everyone is being too critical because we are all expecting that a new bike means we will win immediately, when was the last time Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, BMW won out of the blocks? Plus Ducati have the restrictors and added weight which should be coming off soon. Add to that a world champion who won't win another championship and a relative unknown there are a lot of things not in Ducati's favour right now. There may be a huge development program but we know how quickly Ducati react so give it time, it may be 2014 and some rider changes but it will get there.
Freak, I fully agree but i would like to add that as to vision ( where to go and how to get there ) the part of getting there has become very murky because of many things : 1. being in motogp that builds on a bike that has no added value as to the wsbk bike. what they learn there does not aid 1 ducati. Especialy now they're studying how to build an aluframe.. 2. Getting Rossi in that has stopped ( from GP stand point : wrongly or rightly) all development on the "non frame" - frame. The only tie to the superbike 3. the doubt it has created as to the soundness of the that idea is defelcting focus and creating division within. 4.It is open for discussion whether the size of Ducati allows to be active in GP. They took brave step with the pani superbike, still the core part of Ducati s heritage. For this they are to be applauded. By taking this radical step and all it brings, the consequence should have been that even more of its brainpower/know how and resources should be brougth to the table to ensure that the much more intens development program any revolution will surely dictate to get to the vied results succeeds. Exactly the opposite is happening. That and that is the only reason why Ducati has no place in motgp. I f i was to be a top contender for the wsbk title as a rider, and being approached by ducati to join, my first question would be on their development plans. and as long as they would not convince me that wsbk would get top priority over GP from top manangement and assure me they would put their top people on it, i'd decline the offer. As to saying the bike is not better, put it against a stock 1198. Even a 1198R would have a hard time against a Pani base. And a stock 1198 is no 1198R... it surely feels like the pani has the same efffect on many Ducatisti the 999 brought. Here fore tech and feel reasons, the 999 for looks reasons. it will take time and focus ... but we'll get there... perhaps not winnig everything we enter - with electronics taming the 200+bhp, those days are gone forever - but being a contender at every start we take....
or even better : the MCN comparison of the top of the line superbikes Panigale R 146.7 BMW HP4 147.7 Aprilia RSV4 149.8 MV F4RR 153.9 now that is a race to win !
I think its just a gauge as to the potential. The unknow is whether the base is 99% as good as it gets, where theothers its maybe 90%.
Guys, In terms of development of the Panigale, readiness for market and winning races etc also remember please that InvestIndustrial were in the process of offloading Ducati for a billion euros, making a 3x multiple on their original equity investment. You bet they got the bike out there quickly to market - ready or not. Wouldn't you? Especially after the spectacular flop that was the Rossi/MGP experience, that was obviously supposed to materially improve the value of the brand and frameless concept rather than damage it! So get it out there and just blame it all on the unique issues in MGP and 60 degree lean angles and try and steer everyone away from alternative interpretations. Likewise, what does it cost to get Troy being all evangelical about your new toy all over social media for a year? What's the payback on that? Pretty high - and they have a sophisticated marketing and PR machine at Ducati.
cant help but believe the frameless concept is at the route of all things problems and i did say this during the Stoner/Rossi MGP frameless era flop and during the concept of the fannygale...suggesting the slagging in MGP of said technology wasnt boding well for the superbike concept.
The frameless design is all new, so any previous data is useless, they have had to start from scratch. Look how long it's taken BMW to scramble their way to the head of the field.
no i disagree.......you decide to make a sports bike, you buy a cbr1000, an R1, a kasawauki whatever and disect them.........hell if your a big company like BMW you buy an ex WSB bike from any of the above and from there you get your bearings! MGP is supposed to be the proving ground for technology that then filters down to the public product........which in this case it has.........trouble is it has never really worked. Funnily enough this all started around 2008 the year after winning the championship and the first year of the new frameless technology..... 2008-2013 what, 5 years in development.....er backwards, and in 2013 where did Rossi go with it.....funnily enough to a twin spar frame....
WSBk Pani's given extra 2mm bigger inlet restrictors from next round. Up from 50 to 52. Standard is 60something. This is due to the results from last 3 rounds and is reviewed every 3 rounds. At the start of the season the 5kg weight penalty was rebuked as it's a brand new bike.
It quite clearly isn't as simple as that though, is it. Do you not think BMW did just that? Yet they've taken years to get up to speed, and so have Kawasaki. I'm sure Ducati has a shedfull of jap superbikes in bits as well, but that's only half the story.
GP5 Loris Capirossi riding the GP5 ...and GP6. The GP5 version lined up for Ducati’s third season in MotoGP, with Bayliss replaced by the Spanish rider Carlos Checa. Thanks to a collaboration agreement with Bridgestone, Ducati could finally contribute to the development of new tyres and by the end of the season the Desmosedici became a competitive machine. Bridgestone found that hard tyres suited the bike more than softer tyres to create grip - simply put, allowing it to spin the rear wheel gave better control. Capirossi took two wins in the Grand Prix of Japan at Motegi and in the Malaysian GP at Sepang, while Checa scored a brace of podium finishes [edit]GP6 Launched at the Italian skiing resort of Madonna di Campiglio, the GP6 is a lighter and more powerful version of the GP5. Involving better aerodynamics and a better fuel tank position, most importantly, although more powerful, the engine delivery was smoothed to make the bike more ridable. This made the bike slower on top speed, but quicker into, around and out of corners.[SUP][1][/SUP] The new rider with Capirossi was Spanish rider Sete Gibernau. After encouraging winter tests, the Desmosedici GP6 took its first win of 2006 in the opening GP at Jerez de la Frontera, Spain, followed by a podium in Qatar. Capirossi led the championship for a short while, but at the start of the Grand prix de Catalunya at Barcelona, Gibernau's bike collided with Capirossi's after Gibernau braked too late and compressed his brake lever further after impacting it on the back of Capirossi's bike. Both riders ended up injured and in the hospital, with Gibernau sustaining a broken collar bone, and both missed the Dutch Grand Prix at Assen. Capirossi returned at the British Grand Prix, while Gibernau was replaced by German Alex Hofmann for the Dutch Grand Prix, the British Grand Prix, and also the Czech Grand Prix after undergoing additional surgery. With Gibernau sidelined for the final round of the season at Valencia following a collision with Casey Stoner, Ducati recalled Bayliss, who was recently crowned World Superbike champion. The race was won by Bayliss, his first MotoGP victory, with Capirossi taking second place for the first Ducati 1-2 finish. [edit]GP7 For 2007, MotoGP rules were changed to cap motors to a maximum displacement of 800 cc. In response, Ducati built the GP7. Its specifications were: 800 cc bike, double L-Twin motor (4 Cylinder Twin Pulse), approximately 168 kW (225 hp) at 19000 rpm and a greater than 330 km/h top speed (Confirmed 337.2 km/h (209.6 mph)).[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] Ducati started its project to build an 800 cc MotoGP bike extremely early and according to Ducati's racing chief Filippo Preziosi, by August 2006 Ducati had already built twenty 800 cc engines with various specifications.[SUP][2][/SUP] In addition, an early version of the bike was track tested for the first time during early May 2006.[SUP][3][/SUP] Public testing with the bike began at the Brno Track, where Loris Capirossi had won the day before riding the GP6, on the 21st of August. Capirossi's lap times on the prototype GP7 were only 1.4 seconds off his track record time set on the 990 cc GP6. Further testing of the GP7 in Motegi, Japan, revealed that the 800 cc machine could run faster laps than the higher-displacement 990 cc bikes, and held nearly a second advantage over the next fastest 800 cc bike, a Honda ridden by Dani Pedrosa. MotoGP's 800 cc era officially began with the first race of the 2007 MotoGP season, at the Losail International Circuit in Qatar. Casey Stoner won the race on the new GP7. The bike had a clear top speed advantage over the rest of the grid, due to its higher output motor. A new track record was set on the GP7. Second place contender and five time former World champion, Yamaha's Valentino Rossi, complained that "unfortunately, there was too much difference between (our) bikes in the straight" and "Our Yamaha will never go as quick on a straight as the Ducati." These words turned out to be true, as the GP7 enjoyed a top speed advantage throughout the season, although the other manufacturers (Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki) closed the gap significantly by the end of the year. Stoner and his Bridgestone-shod Ducati proved to be the top combination in MotoGP and he won the world championship at Motegi, Japan, on September 23, 2007, four races before the end of the season. [edit]GP8 Casey Stoner's Ducati Desmosedici GP8 An evolutionary update of the GP7 design,[SUP][4][/SUP] Ducati's entry for the 2008 MotoGP World Championship was tested first in February 2007.[SUP][3][/SUP] For purposes of avoiding chatter which was encountered on some occasions with GP7, the rigidity of the GP8's frame was altered, although further details of relevant modifications are not disclosed.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] In addition, in an attempt to reduce an effect described as "pumping", some modifications to the bike's suspension geometry were made.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] As with its predecessor the GP8 contains a four-cylinder 800cc engine with desmodromic actuation of its 16 valves. The engine has improved mid-range response and top-end power compared to that of the GP7. During 2007 Ducati tested a special fuel saving clutch arrangement which disengaged the clutch during braking and reduced fuel consumption, however the arrangement was not incorporated in the GP8 as various advanced lubricants and fuels used with the GP8 are believed to provide comparable fuel savings, while decreasing internal engine friction and increasing maximum power.[SUP][6][/SUP] In race trim the bike recorded an official top speed of 343.2 km/h (213.3 mph) at the 2008 Chinese motorcycle Grand Prix.[SUP][7][/SUP] However, in a video of the same race, Casey Stoner is seen to ride the bike at the speed of 347 km/h (216 mph). [edit]GP9 The GP9 was Ducati's entry for the 2009 MotoGP World Championship. Ducati began testing it on track prior to May 2008.[SUP][8][/SUP] On 9 June 2008, Ducati publicly rolled out the Desmosedici GP9 for testing at Circuit de Catalunya.[SUP][9][/SUP] A distinctive feature of GP9 is its carbon fibre chassis, representing a departure from Ducati's traditional steel trellis chassis.[SUP][10][/SUP] Although carbon fibre chassis were tried in mid 1980s, currently no other MotoGP racing team uses them.[SUP][10][/SUP] The GP9 reached a speed of 348 km/h in the fifth round of the MotoGP championship at Mugello. [edit]GP10 On January 15, 2010, Ducati introduced the GP10 for the 2010 MotoGP season.[SUP][11][/SUP] Development concentrated on improving engine longevity, to keep within new engine restrictions, and rideability.[SUP][12][/SUP] Most notably, the GP10 makes use of a big-bang firing order for the first time since the Desmosedici changed from the 990cc to the 800cc engine capacity.[SUP][12][/SUP] It also features redesigned fairing, first seen at the 2009 Estoril round.[SUP][12][/SUP] [edit]GP11 On January 12, 2011, Ducati introduced the GP11 for the 2011 MotoGP season.[SUP][13][/SUP] The bike will be raced with Valentino Rossi and Nicky Hayden.
It wasn't slow when checa put it on pole at Phillip island! You have to ask if the guy is fully fit I personally have faith in checa but maybe he needs a better team mate to help development. As for the superbike test in MCN what a fix they admitted ducati engineers set up the 1199r for that track so we don't really know which stock bike is quicker in a fair fight but it's not hard to believe the BMW could find the extra second or so if it had the same treatment
From what I heard, Checa took his brain out for that one lap at PI hence the performance but had no idea if he'd crash every corner or not. Shows commitment to me. And knew they couldn't run the race pace
Two reasons: Checa knew he'd struggle, so got himself as far up the grid as possible. And the reason that was possible is the track suits the Ducatis. Checa is a real pro, you don't suddenly become shit overnight; not ten places worth of shit, anyway.
So MCN admit the pani was set up by ducati engineers for the mcn test.. How low will Ducati go to convince its a good bike is a total farce. Anyone read the UNBIASED report from Hodgeson who tested the pani and 1198 back to back.
