Look, it's like this: if Bikesafe is an NVQ, the IAM Skills For Life course (or RoSPA course, for balance) is an A-level. Why is it arrogant to suggest that I don't need to do stuff that I've already covered (and exceeded) in training to be an IAM Observer? I completely agree with you that the right attitude is important. How does my trying to defend the above position make you think that the IAM course wouldn't give you that?
Mac Its not what you said, it's how you said it. "I'm an IAM observer and I do a similar or higher syllabus each time I train" would have conveyed effectively what you are putting across now. The sole "I don't need to, I'm an IAM Observer" came across as elitist. Moreso to me as one of the lads who came with me is similarly an IAM Observer in cars and on bikes and he picked up a few bits himself on the day.
Mac, It isn't about what you know. You could probably ride circles around anyone here on any given day, who knows. My point was that biking is about attitude (inclination/orientation towards something/someone, as perceived by yourself and others). And I think others have spoken lucidly about their perception of your attitude without me going into more detail...
Thank you both for the clarification. The smiley that accompanied what I said obviously went completely unnoticed. Looks like I misjudged the audience. I really didn't know there was such animosity towards the IAM. FWIW, I've not been trying to claim superiority over anyone - all "advanced" bike skills can be learned by 99.9% of people otherwise there wouldn't be much point in trying to teach them. My original point, which has been lost in all of this, was that for £29 more than an advertised Bikesafe course, you could do a full IAM course which is much, much more in-depth - hence the comment I made when it was suggested that I find a free Bikesafe course.
I seriously doubt anyone here has any animosity at all towards the IAM per se and any riders who appreciate the value of any rider training. However, I have come across several IAM riders who think they are god's gift to bike riding and think they are above any other form of rider training as it is 'beneath' them... maybe it is something they 'teach' at the IAM course... who knows, I haven't been to an IAM course but have come across quite a few of them on the road... Fully agree :smile:
Just getting me pipe n slippers out before I go to the local IAM meeting. It does have an image, and not a very good one at that. I have even heard of an examiner describing one of the branches near to me as the Inst. of Average Motorcyclists, and some of the car groups seem to be populated solely by over 50s who want to polish their badges and be on a committee. I have done the local Bikesafe a few years ago and the Lincs Performance Plus course at Cadwell this year, which were both very useful, and when I can pay a few quid to learn so much in a single day from highly trained professionals, I really can't see the point of the IAM course.
Yes, and if you can get the Bikesafe course cheaply, it's a great idea. The thing that really shocked me, and which led to my comparison, was £70 for it. The point of the IAM course, btw, is that it's much, much more info than one can take in and put into practice in a day. And at the end of it, you're not far off Police rider standard (if it's run properly - I'll admit that certain areas of the country have IAM groups that are somewhat lacking). IAM car groups and bike groups are, on the whole, chalk and cheese. The bike groups actually enjoy getting out and riding (the decent ones, at least).
Now I know your comments were not misunderstood earlier! You are seriously deluded if you believe that completion of the IAM course gives you that.
Why is £70 so shocking? I got a two hour ride on the road, one to one with a serving Police traffic motorcycle officer, excellent value for money on its own without the classroom discussions which were very good as well. Some of those on the course were only allocated IAM Observers rather than Police riders, but I think they were the ones who had much less experience, so were more likely to gain something from the lower level of instruction available. The bottom line is that the IAM course is likely to cost more than £200, and is delivered by enthusiastic amateurs. It will certainly help to improve the skills of riders who lack experience, confidence and natural ability, but I'm not at a level where I am going to learn much by trundling around at 55mph with some old fart on a Pan European behind me.
Bar the high speed stuff that the police do, it does if it's delivered correctly. Just to qualify, I know this because we have two serving Police riders in our club who have told me so.
Our local Bikesafe is only £25. I'm not saying that the instruction isn't excellent. I'm trying to convey that it's a stripped down, bare essentials version of Roadcraft. There wouldn't have been any "lower level of instruction" - both the Police and the IAM Observers would have been teaching exactly the same thing. There's only so much of Roadcraft that can be taught in a day so they tend to concentrate on safety, stability and view. There's so much more to advanced riding. Severn Advanced Motorcyclists do the full IAM Skills For Life for £99, for as many sessions as people need to get them to exceed the 'pass' level for the IAM 'test'. It'll help all kinds of people at all kinds of levels, honestly. A Bikesafe course just scratches the surface. And you'd be surprised what old farts on Pans can do, I guarantee it. I was a bit of a road racer type with a VFR (I'd already done my car IAM test) when I first joined them and in my first group ride with them I was outridden on a very twisty road by a bloke on a Goldwing!
Been out with loads of IAM guys, some good and fast, some bad and fast, some slow....er than they said they were. Been out with a few plod riders too. Exactly the same. Live and let live peolpe, long as they havent dressed their Pan up like a copy Police bike let 'em live...if they have string 'em up!
I saw one a few years ago that had done that with an extra step. He had a white helmet with the word POLITE on the back of it. It was placed slightly off centre so from behind it read POLI; you dont need the brains of an arch bishop to work out what he was trying to do.... I did do a single day with the IAM; my overiding impression was "train spotters". I am sure they are not all like this but I can only go from my limited experience.
I've just booked my classroom part tomorrow for north Yorkshire. Everyone can always learn something new and I'd like to pass my IAM one day. Now where is that baffle for the practical ride day)).
