Brexit has been a sham from start to finish. The referendum was called for in 2016 because the UK Parliament could not put the issue of EU membership, or leaving the EU, to bed. They couldn't settle the matter amongst themselves and in desperation (and the hope of a Remain vote) the Government called a Referendum and told us that the result would be acted upon. The electorate voted Leave. In a plot-twist absolutely no one could have predicted, Parliament cannot now agree on the manner of our leaving the EU. So what do they do? Cancel Brexit until further notice. Essentially, Parliament has said, "We cannot agree what to do; tell us what you want us to do; we cannot agree on what you asked us to do; we aren't going to do what you asked; we are now going to agree amongst ourselves what it is we are going to do". Worth repeating - Parliament is going to determine and then agree upon what it is they will do about Brexit. Yeah. The fact that our politicians are doing this ... not surprising, not even disappointing. They fact that our politicians expect us to accept this state of affairs ... insulting!
I assumed it was a "a humorous, "Nazi-treasure lying at the bottom of Swiss lakes meme/cliché" sort of way that you were teasing me with which I why I took no offence. As for the left/right divide, that is pretty much semantics. I'm not even sure how relevant they are any more. You've got populist, corporatist, autocratic and other labels that can be used these days which are perhaps more enlightening. Or not. I still see Right as a more individual philosophy and Left as a more collective philosophy. That doesn't make Left socialist, or communist or any -ist. As places like Britain and the US are essentially driven by right-wing politics - institutionalised disparity in wealth and favouring of the wealthy - Left is often equated with a viewpoint that questions the narratives that the Right put forward to justify the status quo. But all this is well off the point of Brexit. Interestingly, though, you could see the EU as a right-wing corporatist plot, where lobbyists have far too much say in laws that end up trickling down to member states, or you could see it as a left-wing plot for a socialist superstate where all tax and people will be equal. The fact that you can see it both ways probably means that it is neither of those things. A bit like the BBC, your bugbear of the MSM you so abhor (though most printed journalism in the UK is of course crap - most, not all). It is accused of being both consistently leftist, and also of being the mouthpiece of a rightwing state. This only bolsters my belief that it is essentially impartial, but if questioning the status quo, and providing investigative insights into power is leftwing, then I suppose it is leftwing. It doesn't really matter to me.
In my opinion (and that of the majority of folk) there is no "worse deal than WTO" (typical attitude of a 46%er) Dave, the country of of 66 million hasn't shrunk to 5,647 which is the number that was asked to take part in the first part of the poll and only 1,769 who was asked for the second part of that poll . Hardly the majority of folk
so, we are mainly made up of rural comunities where much of our trade is generated in those areas, without the schools the comunities turn in to retirement villages but they are closing else where, just suck it up? a two bill cut anually since 2009 doesent affect services? most migration comes in via the south east, gennerally they will settle at the first port of call and offer of emplyment. with the highest emplyment rates and lowest unemplyment rates, and clearly pro EU. it cant be the lack of emplyment oppertunities or lack of a welcoming atmosphere not imposing imiration policies that exclude those under 30k or a visa less than the length of a degree course. immigration is reserved. we have 4 of the top universities on the plannet, the uk immigration policy as it stands is gonna ferk them. but hay, greivence monkeys. so, we shouldnt try and compete for a share of those EU nationals and attempt to grow our ecconomy? just asccept uk immigration policies that are tailored for the south and south east? aye, ok. watch us.
"Insulting" is a great word to describe the whole sorry business. I realised that knife crime has a lot in common with Brexit, surprisingly. It is because "disrespect" is at the heart of both problems. If someone "disrespects" you on the street in some areas of the UK, you shank him (or her). Half the UK is furious that they have been "disrespected" by the EU. Oooh, how furious they were with Donald Tusk's "special place in hell" remark. How furious they are with the EU's tough negotiating stance. It's all about respect and the UK is feeling that it is being disrespected. This creates umbrage and anger and wild emotional reactions. If you reckon, according to @Dave's YouGov poll quote (I almost said "Pole" for a laugh), that 50% of the country want to Leave and 2/3 of them want to leave without a deal, despite everyone of note pointing out that this is economic suicide, you've got 1/3 of the country that is very pissed off - that feels it is being disrespected. To those people you an add another swathe of the population that feels, like you do, that the whole of Westminster is disrespecting you - insulting you. This is the tone that is the most prevalent on this thread and almost uniform on the Leave side of the debate. It wasn't really until I saw those YouGov poll (pole) figures that I understood what is really going on, that being in a state of permanent pissed-offness wasn't limited to a few feisty forum members but that it is indicative of about a third, at least, of the country. Brexit was always an emotional decision, not a rational one. And the emotion has just been ratcheted up further and further. We may have more yet in the next fortnight or so. Great soap opera, but a bit of a gamble with the nation's future. Still, carry on.
I assume that this is typically disingenuous. Unless you think that asking people's opinion for market research purposes is always a waste of time. Not many companies would agree with you.
I apologise for slacking and redouble my efforts to ensure you take offence. You echo my own thinking on this. I believe that the traditional sides, Left and Right, still exist, in that ordinary people subscribe to one or other philosophy, or deliberately pitch themselves somewhere in the middle. Political power though, has moved on from these older forms. Political power resides in the globalism position. Globalism most closely resembles the old Leftism, but instead of centralised power held by national governments, it is instead held by financially powerful individuals and corporations. Instead of the means of production being controlled by government, wealth creation is achieved through crony capitalism. Governments are bribed to create conditions amenable to multi-national corporations. The theatre of Left and Right is still important though, as it creates popular division and helps maintain the illusion that citizens, voters, are invested in the political system. If you doubt my word on this, may I refer you to the Brexit thread in the Ducati Forum, where you will find plenty of evidence of the globalist/crony-capitalist nature of the EU. Just one example, there are others around the World *cough*Democrats*cough* Not much disagreement from me here. The Right favours self-reliance and individual freedom, the Left seeks a "no one left behind outcome". Arguing as to which system is more likely to "succeed" in the long term has no place in this thread : o ) As you will have gleaned already, I see the EU as neither Left nor Right, but as shining example of the new globalist type of political creature. The BBC puzzled me for a number of years. My leftist friends complained of its right-wing bias. My right-wing friends complained of its left-wing bias. A proper mystery, until I twigged the new political reality - ie, there is no Left, or Right, only globalist, or nationalist. The BBC is firmly in the globalist camp, along with every other UK MSM outlet. In case you haven't noticed : o ) The nationalists are playing catch up, as far as I can tell, having not recognised the new threat to their way of life until very late in the game. They have been tied up in knots over accusations of racism, populism and the like, whilst the globalist agenda has for many years quietly permeated schools, universities and other national institutions. I think the nationalists are too late but that doesn't mean giving up. There's a chance we can save ourselves.
Market research is fine, it's when it's not presented correctly that I have issue with it. Now if they had presented it as "46% of the 5,647 asked gave us this result and on the second poll 1,769 was asked and gave us this answer" I would say that would be accurate but when it is presented as 46% of Britians, then yes I think that is fair to have issue with it
For clarity, I do not feel insulted by the EU. Nor do I don't feel insulted by a cold virus. The EU and the cold virus are both doing what they are designed to do and to feel insulted by either is pointless. The UK Government though, are supposed to be servants and leaders of the country. They could serve, and lead, with a modicum of honesty, and respect for the citizens of the UK, but instead, they insult our intelligence and treat us as unthinking, unreasoning sheeple. I find this to be insulting. Brexit is a rational response to the EU. The fact that you cannot understand the reasoning for it does not mean that it is an emotional response to an emotional subject - it just means that you have failed to grasp what the EU is and what Brexit represents. I forgive you though. Gardening leave really does knacker the cognitive processes, I've heard. Have you thought about taking up Sudoku?
Absolutely. Of course a lot or Remainers feel disrespected too ... you can see the pickle we are in. Personally I feel everyone needs to compromise and move forward to start to heal the divisions.
Glidd is a master chef, a keen gardener who grows his own food and upon occasion, he can whip up a truly impressive hyperbole.
Indeed, Dave. And in a show of good faith, I have healed your quoting. : o D It's joke. Take the joke.
I think you already know the answer fin. If you want to project it as "look we the snp are victims again" rather than the honesty of in rural areas throughout the U.K. and europe, less kids and of those most are not staying in rural communities means not enough pupils to keep a school open. So we are agreed then, it's not the tories fault, it's not westminsters fault, the migrants go where they want to go? I'm pretty sure the under 30k standard is universal across the U.k. (personally I think they will have to drop it to £25k at some point) so all 4 countries will have the same standard. The visa required for a degree for overseas students rightly should match the time of the surely? Even disputing the top 4 are in Scotland, so far nothing has appeared that has said overseas students cannot apply and study if successful in application in the U.K. https://www.theguardian.com/higher-...-200-universities-in-the-world-2019-the-table Absolutely you should compete, my point was that when the doors have been wide open and the cup runneth over, your government has been shit at competing and rather than admit that, the snpites have tried to blame everyone but themselves. So if you can't compete when it's like shooting fish in a barrel, then perhaps what the scottish government has been doing and failing, needs a think of a different way of doing it? or a reality of understanding that sometimes, migrants prefer big cities than rural areas as often, rural is what caused them to leave their own country and it's no ones fault but just is what it is
Against all the odds Liam the 'ol Fox has come through! Today Papua New Guinea and Fiji tomorrow the world.
