Noob I hate to say I expected you to say that, so I won't. Good luck with ever proving that you are genuinely interested in discussion. If it was a joke, well I'd practice a little more if I were you!
I think people being willing to consider a solution as opposed to demanding what they want is a big part of finding an answer.
i was thinking more frank Spencer and his man on the moon scene. yip, i guess some countries do ave em.
The stalemate existed before the referendum was called. The referendum's stated aim was to cut through the squabbling and disagreement to resolve an un-resolvable (by Parliament) problem. A referendum only really works for a binary choice. Leave or Remain was the binary choice. Once you have decided that you want to Leave the EU, any attempt to come up with a consensus as to how to Leave will lead to log-jams. Like we have now. People will invent terms such as Hard and Soft Brexit, NorwayPlus, etc. If you are going to try to come up with a consensus of leaving methodology, you are going to need a lot more referendums - but all of these referendums would have to be based upon leaving the EU and no one wants to agree what "leaving" actually means. I can advise you on what leaving means, if anyone is in any doubt, by the way. The only version of Leave worthy of the term is to leave without strings and from there, negotiate a trade deal with the EU as an independent country. I knew this, just after the Referendum and I have not been proved wrong yet. How did I know this? Because the EU was not interested in negotiating a trade deal with the UK, but rather its surrender and return to the EU. The EU is committed to "More Europe". Trade is not the end-product, it is not the goal - it is the honey-pot used to drag nations into the EU. More Europe is the goal, the end-result. The idea that the UK would be able to negotiate a deal that was in any way in the UK's interest is laughable. Negotiation of a Leaving Deal was only going to be about forcing or encouraging the UK's early return to the EU, or as a worst-case scenario (for the EU), to punish the UK and discourage other member states from considering this course of action. This was all as plain as the nose on your face, to anyone who has ever considered what membership in the EU actually represents. it's not "rocket surgery". People voted on the question out or in. If people didn't like the question, they could have voted Remain. As it is, they voted Leave. That was the leap of faith they made. The Referendum was Alexander cutting the Gordian Knot. There was no other way to solve this tangle. There is no consensus other than the general one, Leave.
That is not a discussion, that is, your democratic majority people vote doesn't matter, so lets discuss my ideas about what level of remain you want
Yes. On the face of it I think remainers have made more fuss about what they want, and the majority of politicians wanted remain. Perhaps a long extension and GE is the only answer.
Survey of Conservative party members result received today. Thank you for completing our most recent Brexit survey. We wanted to report back to you with the results, which we will also be publishing on social media shortly. Total responses: 5,055 May’s deal (The Withdrawal Agreement): 4.6% Standard Free Trade Agreement: 7.7% Revoke A50: 1.9% No deal: 84.2% Leave, Customs union & Single Market: 0.3% Leave, Customs union: 0.5% Second Referendum: 0.8%
I would agree wholly that a binary referendum based on two choices is fine. I don't agree that the last was clearly put to the people, as they were offered many types of Leave, by the Leave team. That is undeniable. A referendum next week that says WTO/ Remain is fine with me. Everyone now knows what it means.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear. One of the Leave campaigns cannot compete with the publicly-funded, Remain-infested Electoral Commission in terms of spending money and has had to withdraw its appeal as a result. Galaxy brains, including such luminaries as Carol The Cat Codswalloper, the retraction-meister herself, concludes that this is an admission of guilt on the part of that particular Leave campaign. So the Leave campaigns, whose total spending between them was a fraction of the suspiciously-funded and government-backed Remain campaign, are deemed to be crooked. Remain campaign even received on top of that a £9M b̶u̶n̶g̶ ̶ boost from the UK G̶o̶v̶e̶r̶n̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶taxpayer, to ensure that the Remain campaign was able to put a Remain propaganda leaflet into every household. I rarely say exactly what I am thinking ... but on this issue, the matter of campaign funding Leave vs Remain, people can fuck right off. Remain outspent Leave, Remain had the media on its side, the government on its side, the large multi-nationals on its side. So genuinely, sincerely, heart-feelingly ..,. Fuck. Right. Off. Not you, Jez. You're cool, if a little misguided and misinformed : o )
The bile of disaster coming from the establishment was 10 times greater than leave, I know it, you know it, everyone knows it - so stop being so silly and genny about it
I haven't spent much time reading about it, and if it is all claptrap, there will be plenty of people about to point that out. The initial results suggest there is something to look into.
The problem with your arguably sensible solution is that the UK Government and its Parliament does not want to offer that to the people. The confusion over Leave, the "cliff-edge" the "Brexit Crisis" is what the Establishment wants, with Theresa May charging to our rescue with a "Withdrawal Agreement" - which even our decadent and corrupt Parliament cannot stomach. I don't like the thought of another referendum but not because I fear the result. For me, it sets the worst kind of precedent (at least, in UK politics, if not EU politics). A clearly put ballot question would provide a clearly understood answer, which the UK Government most certainly does not want. It will, perhaps, be up to the People of the UK to solve this issue and in my view, it can only be solved by the People telling MPs, "WTO or you'll never sit in Parliament again". Small chance of that happening. MPs themselves are more likely to have a crisis of conscience. Heh. Just kidding.
The quality of the MPs is seriously in question The quality of the MPs is seriously in poor. All those Indi Tinge Spare Changers who won't hold by elections (OK not this week but they ought be obligated to do so soon). Mogg "The deal is slavery & vasselage/ Yes I want to reccomend you vote for it". Davis had to resign but now thinks the deal is the best thing for the country. Tom Watson LAB & looney LIBS all demanding revoke and forget it the referendum ever happened - WTF. Once the extension is agreed, and May is gone I hope the noise level goes down, and sensible voices might be heard. Not 100% Remain voices. Not WTO voices. Ones that many will listen to. Maybe they will offer a straight referendum at short notice with no advertising allowed by either side.
