I wouldn’t be doing right for doing wrong. But you and I (and 99% of all other members) know I’d be doing right.
Passage of time has nothing to do with it? In 75 we voted in. It is therefore a bloody democratic disgrace that we had another referendum in 2016. It was not the will of the people. Regarding the video, the bit I don't like is that she thought the referendum was fought in good faith. It wasn't. I don't like her, she was one of Labour's 70% that paid back some money in the expenses scandal. I don't like the Labour party because of the above, because of Tony Blair's Bush fixation and the fact that he only got into power in 1997 by becoming the conservative party. So I would already like to see her pulled apart by chimpanzees. But that video does not really add much.
All of your post fin^ is tosh because you have avoided what was asked and not for the first time, the eu is moving from all for one or nothing, to a majority vote only system, nowhere can that be seen as a democratic improvement no matter how much you want to remain in the eu
Yes lets look at those, rich started getting silly, me and exi started to diffuse it with silly pictures. We both know who the trolls are fin agreed, even though the process is still active, the eu elections show that with next week, a remainer wants to shut the thread down and an remainer snp wants to call everyone who disagrees with him, trolls The thread should stay but some should try being an adult instead of a millenial, if the thread is not for you, don't join in, instead of just joining in to shut it down
Oh pleeze. The eu were warned well before even we had a vote on leaving and not just by the u.k. Then when the vote happened they promised to listen to the people more in 2016 and what did they do? the eu commission tried to make it more one state than ever before Now the mep elections are going on, they come out once again saying they need to listen to the people. If it was just the U.K. that had an issue with the eu then your point maybe valid but so many countries are now seeing anti eu parties and populations that the blame is firmly at the eu's front door. They could have changed at any time, they have chosen not too
We did not vote "in" in 1975. It was realised that taking us originally taking us into the EU without a referendum,(many historians claim our membership is unconstitutional and illegal anyway),and the 1975 vote was to ask if we wanted to stay,"in". The Government has announced the results of the renegotiation of the United Kingdom's terms of membership of the European Community. "Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)? A simple YES / NO answer was permitted (to be marked with a single 'X')". Heath told blatant lies when he took us,"in",which he subsequently admitted,and the Yes campaign in 1975 was just as biased as they were in 2016. "The government distributed pamphlets from the official Yes and No campaigns to every household in Britain, together with its own pamphlet which argued in support of EC membership. According to this pamphlet, "the most important (issues in the renegotiation) were FOOD and MONEY and JOBS". During the campaign, almost the entire mainstream national British press supported the "Yes" campaign. The left-wing Morning Star was the only notable national daily to back the "No" campaign. Television broadcasts were used by both campaigns, like party political broadcastsduring general elections. They were broadcast simultaneously on all three terrestrial channels: BBC 1, BBC 2 and ITV. They attracted audiences of up to 20 million viewers. The "Yes" campaign advertisements were thought to be much more effective, showing their speakers listening to and answering people's concerns, while the "No" campaign's broadcasts featured speakers reading from an autocue. The "Yes" campaign enjoyed much more funding, thanks to the support of many British businesses and the Confederation of British Industry. According to the treasurer of the "Yes" campaign, Alistair McAlpine, "The banks and big industrial companies put in very large sums of money". At the time, business was "overwhelmingly pro-European", and Harold Wilson met several prominent industrialists to elicit support. It was common for pro-Europeans to convene across party and ideological lines with businessmen. John Mills, the national agent of the "No" campaign, recalled: "We were operating on a shoe-string compared to the Rolls Royce operation on the other side".[18] However, it was also the case that many civil society groups supported the "Yes" campaign, including the National Farmers Union and some trade unions. Much of the "Yes" campaign focused on the credentials of its opponents. According to Alistair McAlpine, "The whole thrust of our campaign was to depict the anti-Marketeers as unreliable people – dangerous people who would lead you down the wrong path ... It wasn't so much that it was sensible to stay in, but that anybody who proposed that we came out was off their rocker or virtually Marxist." Tony Benn said there had been "Half a million jobs lost in Britain and a huge increase in food prices as a direct result of our entry into the Common Market", using his position as Secretary of State for Industry as an authority. His claims were ridiculed by the "Yes" campaign and ministers; the Daily Mirror labelled Benn the "Minister of Fear", and other newspapers were similarly derisive. Ultimately, the "No" campaign lacked a popular, moderate figure to play the public leadership role for their campaign that Jenkins and Wilson fulfilled in the "Yes" campaign". The whole thing has been a scam from start to finish,and many millions of people were against it from the start. The EU is not the EC that we were taken into-it was supposed to be a,"common market",and the aims of the original founders to turn Europe into a full-blown United States of Europe were never advertised to the electorate. Over the four plus decades of membership millions of UK citizens have demanded a referendum,and it was public clamour for it that forced Camerons hand.(That unprincipled liar Blair,had introduced the referendum act in 2000 which paved the way for 2016,and i seem to recall that previous governments had promised having one but not followed through on it). If you have done well under EU membership,well done. But millions have suffered,industries have been destroyed,communities devastated and opportunities denied. They have just as much right to make a success of their lives as you do,and a few bumps in the road for you and I should not deny them the chance to do so. All paragraphs in italics from wiki,(I can't be arsed to look up government documents and contemporaneous reports to prove what I already know). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum
Why just this thread El? why not the Scottish indi thread or the Trump thread, or the environmental thread or tommy robinson thread or, or or or ?? If you shut down just the Brexit thread as a remainer it would look like you are acting upon a personal bias as a remainer. The only way you could discuss this, is as a forum section and then put it to a member vote, should the speakers section be closed down? Those of us who are democrats would respect even if we disgreed with a closure vote majority. Beware the remainer types though who may ask for another vote.
Look, for sure, we probably agree on a few things. The EU is a self-serving protectionist pig with a corrupt alcoholic cretin in charge, who should be in a home. Or prison. Then there is the narcissistic anti-UK negotiator. I live in Strasbourg. When Juncker comes to town, maybe one day a month, he must have about 20 police offers in convoy, and another 30 or 40 on bikes closing the roads so he can ge through. Personally, I'd like to see him dropped off in the Meinau region of the city and see if he can walk out The main EU building here could probably house all of France's homeless and yet it stands empty nearly all the time. Racial minorities are not represented at MEP level or at employee level. Nor are associated organisations like the Court of Human Rights. This place has a lot of people coming and going compared to the EU buildings, all white, well-heeled, carrying Macbook Pros and Starbucks coffee on their way to work. I ride past it to work on my bike every day. A lot of their cases are meaningless shite. You can go and watch them. One was a cafe owner claiming his rights had been violated because another cafe had opened nearby. Where we differ is our personal situation and our perceptions of what will happen. That's all. You and the other hard Brexiteers know exactly as much as me as to what will happen. We don't know anything.
it cant happin if the people dont want it. thats the beauty of PR over FPTP. for some time now, the conservatives (being pushed by ukip) and now Labour, think solidarity stops at dover, personnaly i dont see any real differences between a mechanic, Biker, fisher, walker, parent from Argyll than one from Gdansk. in many ways we will be on the same page, along with our party preffrences.
fin you are deliberately avoiding it again. the discussion was about the eu doing this and it followed vehofstadts own words only yesterday saying that what the eu is doing. What's your opinion on what was being discussed and not your divert
There is no such thing as a hard Brexit nor a hard Brexiteer. There is Brexit,(leaving the EU and all its associations such as the Single Market,the ECJ,and the Customs Union etc etc),and trading under WTO rules,(in place and well-known to the EU),unless and until agreements can be reached that benefit both the UK and the EU. Or there is No Brexit,which means we have not left the associations and institutions that were clearly described by Cameron,Osbourne,every media mouthpiece and Uncle Tom Cobley etc etc. I agree that no one knows what WILL happen,but we do have the benefit of what HAS happened,and it has not been universally positive. Which takes us neatly back to the people who have suffered vs people who have thrived while the UK has been a member of the European Union. The people who voted to leave will probably be people who have suffered and the people who voted remain will be those who have thrived. But parliament and the civil service have been conducting a faux-negotiation in the interests of those who have thrived,and ignoring the hopes and votes of those who have suffered. It's hardly fair to kick people in the bollocks for 46 years,stop and ask them if they want the bollock-kicking to cease but then carry on kicking them in the bollocks anyway. Or is it?
Whose bush? Cherie's or did he not limit himself to that? I'm asking for a friend in the MSM as he senses a story here
It's hardly fair to kick people in the bollocks for 46 years,stop and ask them if they if they want the bollock-kicking to cease but then carry on kicking them in the bollocks. Or is it? i wonder who it is that is getting the bollock kicking in the EU?.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48275827 So it looks like No Deal or No Brexit. Either way i suspect the Tory party is now finished for good, as it wouldn't survive either vote.
deffo not another "devisive" referendom? yip, make politics as nasty as possible then maybe we wont get involved. i wonder if its those that make it "devisive" have the most to gain from being out the EU. hmm.
So you are saying that the thread that has people posting pics of puppies and cats with a hitler moustache is relevant and pertinent. I think your head is full of cartoons.
