Isn't this what the EU said all along though? "You can't leave the club but get better membership benefits than you have as a member" The UK was never going to get a better deal with the EU than it already had. The EU said that before we voted. The Government said that before we voted. I'm wondering why this is a surprise now...
Yep, and the minute they said that, most brexiteers said it was more about protecting the eu project than anything else so stop wasting time on an eu deal that isn't going to happen, go straight to a clean break What the eu says and what it does in negotiations are rarely the same but you never know till you try, gotta try first Again, it wasn't. most leavers knew they would try and give us such a shitty deal hoping we would stay. This is why so many leavers were shouting at the government, Launch article 50 and on the same day announce we were going straight to wto and a clean brake and using the 2 year article 50 period to negotiate out. The remain government refused, and the remain house of lords/commons have been saying fuck you to the peoples majority democratic vote on a daily basis since
This what I think and have done since last November or so. The fact that we have made a bad choice and that it has been poorly implemented isn’t enough to overturn a democratic vote. Wonder how many people who complained about immigration were cheering yesterday?
It is *mass immigration* that people are concerned with but you are on a roll - don't let the details derail you!
So how are you going to differentiate? I was on a construction site this morning The PM was a Portuguese girl The electricians were Irish and Polish The guy on security was a black fella from somewhere in Africa as was the guy on the exit gate. The guys in traffic management were Romanian. One of the other PMs was English Who are you sending home and who is going to do their job given how low unemployment is? We had mass immigration because the economy grew
People are concerned about mass immigration. They aren't worried about working with a couple of foreign guys, they are apparently worried about "that neighbourhood that used to have native English speakers 30 years ago but now mainly consists of folk for whom English is a (reluctant) second language". I say "people" - I am going by what "people" are saying in some parts of the country. For myself, I live in a part of the country that is mostly native English folk plus a smattering of generally very pleasant Eastern European immigrants (for the most part). However, I don't assume that my experiences are necessarily everyone else's experience, so I reserve judgment - a practice I would recommend other forumites consider. No idea wtf you are on about here though. Who do *you* want sent home?
What's this great deal we currently have, that you speak of? People have heard it all before a million times, about how much worse off we'll be outside the EU, and still want to leave. Project fear didn't work, Project fear mk II didn't work, project hysteria didn't work and whatever the latest incarnation of those is, isn't working. It'll never work, but the Remoanians have nothing else in their arsenal, they know no other way. The genie's out of the bottle and it's not going back in. If the current crop of politicians don't carry this through then a set of politicians who will, will be voted in at the next GE or at least cause major disruption to the status quo.
The biggest thing about immigration was controlled to meet the need and that it be legal. Of course some remainers continue to say it was about racism because they are dicks who lost the vote and 3 years later are still taking their ball away. It's not too much for any country to want to control who comes in and out and that they do it legally is it?
we all know it exists, its the lack of distancing yourself from them that makes you the dick. and a prize one at that. and yip, i agree, we should be able to control our boarders. which is why the UK could. and still can. as the South African woman will testify. married to the Scotsman on the Isle of Arran with a nice wee business to their name being the latest to be removed from the country. how many entrepreneurs and their families is it now that have been deported from these fragile communities in the highlands and islands over the last several years? and for what? to win the vote of "angry from essex"? on top of the EU nationals that either aint coming anymore, and worse still, leaving. these people and their kids make a mountain of difference to small villages. fuggin on size fits all brexit my arse. fuds.
2016 Referendum Leave.EU Campaign; Daniel Hannan, Nigel Farage (etc): "Nobody is talking about leaving the single market" getting a deal will be easy / we'll get a GREAT DEAL! it's understood that a No Deal Brexit - barely mentioned - would be damaging. The nuclear option "we'll leave the political institutions, but trade environment will be much the same" see endless quotes on video posted earlier by 749er 2016 Referendum Result - Leave wins by margin of 2% Brexiters: We want a deal. But we must keep NO DEAL on the table as a *threat* - will focus minds they need us more than we need them! German car industry etc etc. 2018 PM May negotiates a Withdrawal Agreement with the EU £39B divorce bill end Freedom of Movement Leave EU institutions, ECJ etc... Leave the Single Market and Customs Union (necessitating the Irish border 'backstop') *wow - that's kind of hard-core. Labour Brexiters struggle to back leaving the Single Market/CU & ending FoM* ERG / Brexit Ultras: that's not Brexity enough it's a bad deal. The EU is persecuting us! The Backstop will keep us in FOREVER (no - only IF we fail to agree a suitable customs arrangement by the end of the transition period) Treachery! May is a Remainer (*ironic given how Brexity her deal actually was*) 2019 Brexiters Position ONLY NO DEAL is LEAVING the EU EVERYTHING ELSE IS REMAIN Since the original referendum campaign there's been a huge shift in what Leaving the EU supposedly meant in practice. The 2% Referendum margin was NOT a vote for a No Deal Brexit. The ~35% of 'devout' Brexiters have simply hardened their position and will now ONLY accept a No Deal Brexit (the most disruptive / damaging outcome). Because DEMOCRACY INNIT...!! Pretty much everybody else does not want that, and most never did. So, er, Brexit - what happens now??
Since the original referendum campaign there's been a huge shift in what Leaving the EU supposedly meant in practice. You do realise 9 out of 10 cat owners say, Only remainers say that ^ The 2% Referendum margin was NOT a vote for a No Deal Brexit. You'd have been happy with the vote had been in your favour The ~35% of 'devout' Brexiters Given the lack of accuracy in that figure, I'm guessing you're dating Dianne again Pretty much everybody else does not want that, and most never did. I'm pretty sure your mystic mugg impressions are why they stopped using you on Barrymore So, er, Brexit - what happens now?? Well, we'll just have to wait and see but it's been quite a ride dukedusty, quite a ride
Article 50 was triggered, and May negotiated her deal with the EU. Lots of huffing and puffing from the ERG. I dunno - anyone else remember?
So you basically missed the entire point? Or just refuse to acknowledge it, even when laid out in plain English... Do you dispute the Campaign messaging pushed out by Leave.EU during the referendum: that *nobody is talking about the leaving the Single Market*?
There were all manner of debates about the referendum. But I'm just trying to illustrate the evolution of what Leave supposedly represented, before the referendum and after. It's not supposed to be a complete timeline of everything. And no doubt there are other views
Yes, sorry I was being a tw@t really. My simplistic view of it all is that there lies the problem - 2 years of sod all happening, no wonder there is uncertainty now.
Not at all. It's been such never-ending ball-ache it is hard to remember what the f*ck we've been doing. My point is simply that during the Referendum Campaign, prominent Leavers were saying there'd be a deal / minimal disruption to Trade. Right now, Brexiters won't accept anything less than NO DEAL (which is expected to be very disruptive and damaging).
Let me help because it's only fair your sillyness be stopped, it's bad for your health dude Plain English, the deal May put forward, the deal the eu told her to put to the house, was after 2 years of "negotiating" and yet the first time she put it to her own cabinet at chequers, two government ministers left rather than support it. Initially known as the chequers deal, it was to then be known as the meaningful vote The first time she presented it to the house vote, she lost by 432 against to 202 for The second time she put it forward to the house vote, she lost the vote by 391 against to 242 for The third time she put it forward to the house vote, she lost the vote again by 344 against to 286 for. Now despite you claiming the erg stopped the vote, there aren't that many in the erg. The chequers deal was widely derided by all sides of the house and all sides of the brexit spectrum. On the brexit side the ask was as per the vote, leave the eu. That meant all of it's organisations, rules and laws. If I have a cup of tea with a tea bag, at some point the tea bag leaves, in your scenario, the tea bag remaining in the mug, is leaving. All throughout the campaign both sides put their points of view over that came down to the vote when people went into vote, so no matter how much you want to beat yourself up about a result you cannot change, it won't change a thing.
