British Indy: What Happens Now?

It really is getting rather tiresome isn't it, whichever way you voted originally I feel the very small amount of credibility left in the current crop of politicians (on all sides) has been eroded entirely, unless you're SNP in which case you'll still be happy I guess, happy probably being the wrong turn of phrase, but you know what I mean.

I'm now just at the point of requiring closure, and that can come in any form as far as I'm concerned other than revoking (that's too far). Boris deal, No deal or 2nd Ref and take the result whatever that may be, it's just getting fucking boring.

Then we can get on with Indi ref 2, Scoxit, Scexit or whatever they'll call it.

Just for a change of pace it'll be interesting to see that happen actually, and more so to see how things like the divorce bill, currency and application to join the eu pans out.

 

Johnson really looks like a burke now.

He is the Prime minister, yet does everything he can to thwart the law which he is paid to uphold and lead. Refusing to sign the letter makes him look pedantic - especially having been forced by the courts to obey the law. What will he claim next - that he had his fingers crossed behind his back so it doesn't count?

Blojob should have learnt two glaring obvious things from May. The first being that just because your advisors tell you you are right doesn't mean anything when you lose. Its eight or nine votes now plus skirmishing in the courts. The advisors leave and you are left looking stupid. The second is an election is not likely to bring a solution.

There has to be either agreement (and compromise) in parliament created and lead by the PM. Or a second referendum which has Leave no deal/ Leave with this deal/ Remain which however unpalatable has the three options which are available in a binding & non advisory vote; which will be enacted within two weeks of the result.

 

In the case of a 2nd referendum, shouldn't it be two rounds?

Round 1- Leave or remain

If remain wins that's that, done and dusted. But if leave wins we move to the second choice

Round 2 - leave on the Boris deal or no Deal?

That way it's clear on Leave or remain, then clear on the type of leave should that succeed (again)

I sincerely see no basis for the 3 questions put all at once, mainly because part of the moans have been why 52% should overrule the 48%, thus implying the majority isn't enough. By posing 3 questions at once you're reducing the likely winning percentage further.

 

The argument will be that having 3 options splits the leave vote (2 Leave options) - so have 2 legally binding referendum, first one Leave / Remain (yes yes I know we’ve already done that, but would quieten down the people’s vote knobs) then if the result is Leave have a deal / no deal referendum.

 

SNAP.

what do I win ?

 

Good idea

 

A speedboat or a cheque book and pen, your choice?

 

You might be right but I disagree as the reason for the vote is to end the argueing. If the people are not given a choice between the three existing options there is no point doing it.

Incideently don't believe everything you read here. There are Remain types who say that Leave with a deal damages their vote too. Its the same bollox from both sides.

 

Just the pen thanks.

 

Certainly doesn’t seem to be a straightforward solution that ‘unites the country’.

Once Brexit is done either way, how do we instigate a referendum for
‘Leave the system as it is’ or ‘change the system’

 

I personally think thats not a bad idea. Though there will be many who will then say we voted Leave in the first round so we should do so now and thats that. Imagine some of the howls from your fellow forum members -you know who I mean! LOL.

Simple clear and even is the imo the only process that will resolve this, and it must be the same principle for all options.

 

I think the point of another leave / remain vote is for the politicians.
If the result was again Leave, wouldn’t it prove that the politicians are not listening to the ‘people’.

 

May caused much of this mess by leaving large groups enough time to get their opinions entrenched. Appointing (and sacking) Brexit Ministers without any power was disgraceful and underhand. Mays government refused to debate in the House causing many to suspect her motives, and ultimately requiring the courts to be involved. May then tried to cheat the parliament out of due process by running out the clock... All these action gave people the chance to convince themselves that they are being cheated - regardless of which side they are on.

With an open dialogue which the public read and watched, over a two year period, its very possible that a compromise would have been found and we would have already left the EU.

 

Simply put "NO".

The politicians should not now decide if we leave or Remain if you want the public to be happy.
If the result vote was again Leave & no deal, we would do so or if the public chose Leave with a deal that would simililarly happen with the current one.

 

But offering 3 options upfront would increase arguing not reduce it surely?

If you're a remain voter who genuinely and sincerely believes that the entire countries mood has shifted, then initially voting outright on revocation or continuing with leaving should be enough, how can it not be?

I'm afraid if a remain leaning person isn't comfortable with that option it just proves their intention of trying to split the vote and thus reduce the percentages further, it'd hold less weight than the first referendum and immediately highlight underhand strategy, thus more arguments and it'd never ever go away, ever.

But, if continuing with leaving wins then it is at that point remain voters get another choice, along with leave voters, on the choices of no deal or Boris Johnsons deal.

Posing 3 questions at once is not an arguable or justifiable position.

Either the arguments made by remain voters over 3 years are correct.......e.g.

1- People didn't know what they were voting for
2- There is now a majority for remain
3- People have changed their minds

.....Or they are not

simply being given the opportunity for a 2nd Ref with two stages (if required) is way more than many remain voters could hope, I feel if they dictate the terms as 3 questions at once it's just taking the piss (frankly speaking)

 

have to agree to disagree on that one then

 

If I Agree to your agree or disagree comment am I in agreement or disagreement? You have to be so careful with words nowadays

 

Perhaps a new thread, ‘Did @damodici know what he was agreeing with’ ?