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British Indy: What Happens Now?

Discussion in 'Wasteland' started by Loz, May 23, 2015.

?
  1. Full Brexit with "no EU deal" on the 29th March.

  2. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a general election and new negotiations.

  3. Request Extension to article 50 to allow cross party talks and a new deal to be put to EU.

  4. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a second referendum on 1. Remain in EU or 2. Full Brexit.

  5. Table a motion in parliament to Remain in EU WITHOUT a referendum.

  6. I don't know or I don't care anymore

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. in for a rude awakening?. yip, I agree.
     
  2. Tom Watson for the next Labour leader...... most sensible one of the lot of them.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. It's important that a public propagandist organisation is funded directly, so that folk with consciences can withhold funding by not purchasing the licence.

    Rather than "centrally funding" through general taxation, I would far rather the BBC be scrapped. That way I won't be coerced into funding my own disinformation.
     
  4. Watson was less of a scumbag than Corbyn but only because Corbyn is the ultimate scumbag.
     
    • Drama Queen Drama Queen x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. Good idea, disband the BBC and retrain staff to work in the NHS.
    Buildings could be used for NHS use, mental health probably.
     
  6. I didn't say free.
    Centrally funded.
    Like the NHS.
     
  7. you and I both know port that they where JC's already. they have been sponging of the UK tax spend since the year dot. just wait until their fellow Englishman fully wake up to it. they are on the journey already. like before, every penny from the last QE ended up in the hands of the already wealthy. every penny they are gonna borrow is going to end up in the same hands.
    I have no doubt that the Johnson government will very quickly become the most unpopular in UK political history. The ultra-hard Brexit he is pushing will not be the panacea which the deluded anticipate. It will have a negative economic impact felt most keenly in the remaining industry of the Midlands and North East of England. Deregulation will worsen conditions for those fortunate enough to have employment, as will further benefits squeezes. Immigration will not in practice reduce; what will reduce are the rights and conditions for the immigrants.
    .
    Decaying, left-behind towns will moulder further. The fishing industry will very quickly be sold down the river in trade negotiations with the EU – access to fishing (and most of the UK fishing grounds are Scottish) is one of the few decent offers Boris has to make to the EU in seeking market access. His Brexit deal will take years and be overwhelmingly fashioned to benefit the City of London.
    .
    There is zero chance the Conservatives will employ a sizeable number of extra nurses: they just will not be prepared to put in the money. They will employ more policemen. In a couple of years time they will need them for widespread riots. They will not build any significant portion of the hospitals or other infrastructure they promised. They most certainly will do nothing effective about climate change. These were simply dishonest promises. The NHS will continue to crumble with more and more of its service provision contracted out, and more and more of its money going into private shareholders’ pockets (including many Tory MPs).
    .
    The disillusionment will be on the same scale as Johnson’s bombastic promises. The Establishment are not stupid and realise there will be an anti-Tory reaction. Their major effort will therefore be to change Labour back into a party supporting neo-liberal economic policy and neo-conservative foreign (or rather war) policy. They will want to be quite certain that, having seen off the Labour Party’s popular European style social democratic programme with Brexit anti-immigrant fervour, the electorate have no effective non-right wing choice at the next election, just like in the Blair years.
    .
    To that end, every Blairite horror has been resurrected already by the BBC to tell us that the Labour Party must now move right – McNicol, McTernan, Campbell, Hazarayika and many more, not to mention the platforms given to Caroline Flint, Ruth Smeeth and John Mann. The most important immediate fight for radicals in England is to maintain Labour as a mainstream European social democratic party and resist its reversion to a Clinton style right wing ultra capitalist party. Whether that is possible depends how many of the Momentum generation lose heart and quit.
    .
    Northern Ireland is perhaps the most important story of this election, with a seismic shift in a net gain of two seats in Belfast from the Unionists, plus the replacement of a unionist independent by the Alliance Party. Irish reunification is now very much on the agenda. The largesse to the DUP will be cut off now Boris does not need them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. The names being bandied about fill me full of hope, they are all as useless as each other and none are electable. :)

    Rayner, Long-Bailey,Starmer, Thornberry, Philips (J) :laughing: In fact, have a look at the latest odds below. Pick a potential PM out of that lot. :grinning:

    Screenshot 2019-12-14 at 09.34.23.png
     
    • WTF WTF x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. So free, like? Got it.
     
  10. Sadiq Kahn is electable, but possibly only in the South East?

    There are also some other possibles that aren’t on the list, such as Owen Smith: it depends how far Momentum get with the argument that Labour’s manifesto was correct, it was just the people didn’t understand it in sufficient numbers.

    If it wasn’ae Mr Corbyn’s fault and the campaign was worthy, Labour aren’t likely to change much, even with a new Corbynite leader.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. A small part of that equation was missed out. The two traditional parties, dup and sinn fien ,saw a drop in it's traditional vote even though sinn took dods seat and there are now more republicans than unionists. My point for mentioning this is that the two parties that have held up the people of northern ireland having governmental representation are the parties of old and are starting to fade.

    They will know this and I suspect will now see both seeking to get stormont working gain. I agree with you that Irish unification seems closer and more probable in our lifetime's. Scotland has had it's vote, the U.K. has had it's vote there now is only wales and N.I. that has the right to a generational vote.
     
  12. The funding for channel 4 and the bbc would impact on freeview and freesat, services many pensioners use rather than use the tv packages. The way around this would be to charge a low flat rate say £10 or £20 for the freeview services to everyone and let the bbc and channel 4 go fish in the commercial market
     
  13. Corbyn was electable in the South East, in fact he was. Khan would do even worse, I feel. Of course some of it would depend on his economic policies as Corbyn & McDonnells were madness, but his record as mayor has been terrible. He's a Labour mayor in a Labour city, Boris was elected twice as a Conservative mayor in a Labour city and was very popular. He'd wipe the floor with Khan out in the shires.
     
    #47653 Robarano, Dec 14, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Just because....we'll why not :D

     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. there is no right to a once in a generation vote, especially if there is no contract written that states it.
    votes take place as and when. we could hold a reff tomorrow. I guess Stormont, once its back up and running have the same powers.
     
  16. You could hold a vote in your underpants as far as I'm concerned fin, joining to eu in some form however requires a legal seperation, you know this.
     
  17. The SNP have achieved a large majority of seats (In Scotland) with a manifesto commitment to seek another IndyRef.
    The Conservatives have achieved a large majority of seats (In the UK, though primarily in England and Wales) with a manifesto commitment to not have another “once in a generation” IndyRef.

    Tricky thing this democracy when some people vote for one thing at precisely the same time that others vote against it?

    I wonder what the reasonable compromise is: a referendum with the choice between Remain/Leave, (But only a little bit)?
     
  18. No wonder the Scots want independence with attitudes like that!
    Yes, and we will, but it has to sees as legal internationally or we'll end up like Catalonia.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Face Palm Face Palm x 1
  19. yip, its a good thing that the UN charter that the UK has signed up too, allows us to pursue the path the SGov are taking.
     
  20. Fin in all the time we have discussed this and from opposing sides, the key differences has been on your side you have sought the emotive and sometimes blindly ignored beyond that first step.

    The eu would welcome a genuinely independent Scotland as long as you have your house legally, in order.

    The vote request requires a simple request, one agreed with the devolved government at the time of its conception. That there must be a continual and substantive majority of Scots, or irish when they want their turn etc, who want that independence.

    Since the first indi, that agreed position has never been met, the snp has more work to do to convince the people of Scotland and blaming the U.K. and westminster is a foil to detract that the majority of Scots, by years and numbers are not asking for it.

    Should there be a continual and substantive majority of Scots seeking another indi vote then I'm sure it would happen. I respect Nic is seizing her moment as the snp did well but in 2015 it reached peak indi with 55 snp mp's, this time round it was 48, she knows she hasn't got the numbers or the substantive and consistent majority she needs for another indi

    so to keep her job, she'll keep stirring up the nats knowing full well until the people who are not leave nats in Scotland agree with her, she's going nowhere.

    A second indi depends not on westminster, but enough scots wanting it and so far, they say no
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
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