No one in England voted for the Union either. In fact the was intense opposition to the idea. Scotland was considered to be the author of its own misfortune and few in England felt wiling to fund the bailout or share governance with the Scots. However they were not democratic times and the people on either side of the border had little say in the matter. The Union was a decision taken at crown and government level on both sides and was agreed upon and the most expedient solution. The rulers of Scotland did not want to become a failed state and their English counterparts did not want to live next door to one. You quite disingenuously equate the position of Scotland as part of the Union with former colonies who you say are not rushing to rejoin the UK. They were never part of the UK. They did not "leave" the UK. They were ruled by the UK and they later regained independence. Scotland is not and has never been a colonial possession. You are not ruled by Britain nor are you ruled by England through Westminster. You are part of Westminster. You are one and the same. Scotland It is an equal and consensual partner in an Union of the crown which it entered voluntarily. Former colonies were in an utterly different position to Scotland. They were under the colonial rule of the British Empire, the establishment of which was predated by the Act of Union. The British Empire was very much Scotland's Empire too. You were never ruled by it, you ran it. You are rewriting a fantasised history.
your equating less than 1% with scotland. never a good look. i think you need to look closer at englands finances at the time of the act of union. i think yer wrong (like the wig man) about quite a lot of that, history written by the victors an all that,i think there was 4 blatant lies in that piece i posted alone. and the equal partners did give a chuckle. i will have a rummage around later and see whats what (i do most of my stuff from memory)
To be honest, if your neighbours are deep frying mars bars, you make sure your garden shed has a lock on it, you'll never know what the buggers will do next
To be honest though Fin. the EU is losing authority and I don't just mean Brexit, any small country joining them now, I suspect they will enforce the Euro or nothing as any new countries application to re-affirm the euroisation of the block This is the bit that continues to puzzle me, if the Scots do not like the U.K. government, each and every Scot can vote (of voting age) can do their darndest to vote the P.M. out, go to Europe and the top 5 posts you can't, how is that an improvement on democracy for Scotland? In the U.K. you mostly have only one party to overcome but on the eu you will have over 50 parties and 27 other countries, how is making the opposition 27 times bigger, better for Scots democracy? I agree the way they treated E.T. was shocking, but duke seems to be doing okay out of it See you say that but the biggest nationalist party in the U.K. is NOT UKIP but the SNP As to the media stirring nationalism up, The SNP haven't exactly been innocent in this either and if Scotchland does leave, the SNP will be worse than the tories, why? because you will have to revisit just who their opposition would be? Would you really have Scottish Labour/Conservatives? They will not be able to be called just Labour or Conservatives, those names are trademarked.
maybes aye maybes naw. depends how it all plays out. it's up to May and co. theres several different ways to keep good ties with The EU. i believe in the strength of our hand. i believe the EU with the troublesome partner out and us in could help make it a better place. (to much to go into the now) but, theres a million leave voters to take in to consideration, many of them indi votors, so we will see. makes no real difference how many party's there is, especially if they are all heading in roughly the same direction, and as the june the 23rd proved, you can leave at any time, piece of piss you all tell me. i know who has been representing us there, and where their priorities lie. i also know the strings the uk tory government pulled re barroso and co during the last attempt. (to long to go into now) says who? thats quite an accusation, show me. i'v been reading into this for four years now, out of all the posts from bloggers, press releases, indi and debunking sites i have visited, i haven't seen more than a handful of what you could call nationalistic, and they are all dealt with quickly by the forum massive. if you want to see nationalistic crap go read an MSM online news piece's and comments section. but i suspect you know that already because thats where you get your info from. who would the opposition be in an indi scotland? would the opposition disappear because of a trade mark? ridiculous thing to say. (to long to go into the now) personally i can see several MP's, maybe not MSP's but deffo MP's joining the other partys, or starting their own. i have said this a few times but i can see Mhari Black becoming a leader of a resurgent and capable Scottish labour party in the future. anyhoo. i wrote a wee reply to dam's question as honestly as i could, no need to antagonize those that aint interested. but if you think about it, the Alien act is where the union kicked off, and westminster has been using those tactics ever since.
I like Mahri. I enjoyed her speech on being the only 20 year old being helped with housing by the government, I can see her with a future within Scotland. The trouble the Scots have is that they are part of the U.K. and the two leaders that they have/had in Salmond and Sturgeon, is that they have two leaders who seem to constantly want to go to war with the English, dress it up as Westminster and the tories if that helps you sell nationalism but make no bones about it, when most English hear SNP, they do not think of politicians putting the Scots first, they hear two raving loons who constantly want a fight in the same way some view UKIP. So perhaps Mahri in the future can show that the SNP is progressive in a way Sturgeon and Salmond cannot I think her time will come when we have completed Brexit. Europe will fall shortly before or after, not completely break up but I suspect will go back to a core dozen. When the U.K. is shown to have made the right move at the right time, then all the jingoist stamping of feet by Sturgeon and Salmond will have their supporters asking why haven't we left yet either and they will have to answer honestly, we now know we are better off within the U.K even if we do not like it It will be at that point that they will have lost the audience and Mahri will seem to be the automatic next choice.
Very plausible, but Mahri Black will still be too young to be a credible leader and possibly too far to the left for many.
I would agree she needs at least another 5 years in her. The left's problem has always been trying to match the idealism with realism. I see they are trying to rebrand and relaunch Corbyn 2.0 for the new year the same way they did with Michael Foot
If Scotland chose to break the Union and become part if the EU it would be England that would look increasingly isolated and vulnerable if the Government goes for hard Brexit. We would have borders cutting us off from everywhere. I see some Tory MPs are now setting up a group to oppose Brexit. Won't be long before we have an election I reckon.
I needed a smile wtf moment and sure enough duke, as if by magic, there you pop up There is no such thing as a hard or soft brexit, the vote was to leave and not pick and choose which bits you want. The EU is clear on that as were the majority vote by the U.K. As to vulnerable, I would say Scotland would be more vulnerable. according to the Scottish Governments own figures, 64% of Scotland's Exports are to the rest of the UK. Scotland would not be able to sell to us unless the EU does the negotiations and on EU terms which would leave those Scottish exports in limbo for quite some time. Scotland sells to the world as follows, £48.5 billion to the rest of the U.K., £15.2 billion to the rest of the world and lastly £11.6 billion to the whole of the Eu. These are figures whilst they are in the EU now as part of the U.K. Chop the U.K. sales out till the EU lets you and you can see who is suddenly vulnerable and it isn't the U.K. Export Statistics Scotland - Publication Probably yes but this would be more to stop back door migration into the U.K. Nope, they are the same tory mp's that wanted to remain before the vote even happened It is always a possibility but that will be based more on the court decision than anything else. Personally I think the mood of the country is we are pretty much all electioned out. The Scottish vote, the general election, the mep elections, the local elections and Brexit. I think people are fed up of time being wasted and now just want things to get moving so we "do" instead of just keep talking pish and do nothing.
still waiting for the SNP anti english evidence excludes oil and gas, doesn't include Scottish products leaving from english ports. doesn't include the value of duty paid to Westminster, and like all figures compiled by a Westminster organizations, OBR or ONS cant mind (clever accounting) and all taken into account of wstminster still having the vast vast majority of the leavers. Wings Over Scotland | Out of the cave Wings Over Scotland | The SIX key facts about GERS
Scotland is effectively a one party state and the SNP is a rainbow coalition. If Mahri was ever elected as a "progressive" (whatever the fuck that means) leader of the SNP it would leave a whole lot of current SNP voters with a bit of a dilemma, vote for a party that has just lurched (even) further to the left or do what ? There is always that nice Ruth Davidson, but then she is for the Union .
Oil and gas is not included fin because it is not Scottish as it is in the Queens territorial waters so belongs to whole of the U.K. nothing more and if these are false figures by westminster, which they are not, you can be sure the snp would would have put out different figures on the scots gov website and not the scottish viz comic you keep trying to foist as the only truth As to anti English SNP, You know google is your friend
It's fairly obvious the government really doesn't know which way to go. There is some talk today of them attempting to do different deals for different sectors of the economy as they are so concerned about losing the banking sector. That policy would never work.
It's not so much they do not know but are sounding. Sounding is when little leaks like notes being seen through a long lens camera, a hint at a cbi public meeting, a refusal to answer a certain question in a certain way. Sounding is the political version of feedback. Example, mention we are considering all things, in the evening, then see what the news, papers and social media feedback is, by doing it this way you pretty much and quickly. get a consensus of what might and might not be acceptable. then you "leak" a fine tuned version of what might be acceptable but risky and again monitor the feedback This vote more than any other will see feedback to suggestions like these, being used for the final draft to put to the EU. The EU will have a far tougher time than us as they not only have to please 27 other countries but themselves as well whilst also trying to save the EU
