Apparently the Mail on Sunday has campaigned to remain in the EU,and today's edition is full of doom,gloom and We-Told-You-So. Not that I read this or any other newspaper as a rule,but the missus brought a copy home today and I was interested to see what sort of position it was taking
So, I'm curious, as the "we're going to overturn brexit" brigade gather pace (notwithstanding the disclosure today that the parliamentary petition recently started is a fraud), what will our still current European partners say if the UK parliament do not invoke Article 50 ? Andy
They will say get on with it,because they are the nasty bunch of bullies we already know them to be But it's not down to them,so the UK can take as long as it damn well likes
An interesting interview. She continues to assume that dire consequences will follow from our exit of the EU, I do not believe that will be the case.
Let's be honest, it looks like we are not going to Leave. No one appears to have the balls to sign Article 50 and so be the instigator of the break up of the United Kingdom. General election here we come.
On the more general subject of the reaction to this vote I think this post which appeared on the KTM forum is interesting. Apologies to the poster if you're on this forum as well but I thought it was a good post which offered another angle and was worth sharing. The guy who posted this has been an active campaigner for Leave and he managed to articulate a cogent argument without resorting to insults or hostility despite being on the receiving end of quite a lot of it himself: There’s a new phenomenon of the “filter bubble” which exists in an exaggerated form in “social media” which might explain the present hostility of the REMAINIACS. Basically it is echoes the old salesman’s training technique I was taught: “people like people who are like they are” which in the online world is reinforced by the algorithms used by the likes of Facebook. The explosion in “social media” and the high volume of social contacts one can have on that medium flatters to deceive in that it does not open you up to a more pluralistic view of the world; the opposite happens and you are increasingly exposed only to people with whom your views coincide. Therefore it comes as a shock that there even exists an opposite viewpoint let alone you are outvoted. This manifests in shock, anger and hostility. It seems to be particularly prevalent in left leaning people and the young whom I call “phone zombies” or “Generation Snowflake” in that they never lift their eyes from their “devices” and who exist in their own echo chamber - and the is no “app” for that. I experienced it in the campaign having been banned from Pistonheads and just today banned from Horizons Unlimited despite the fact that on their poll Leave outnumbered Remain by three to one. A tiny handful of the same people engaged in a flame war as if they were teenage girls - one of which was Lisa Simpson. But they successfully managed to close down debate and now only their views prevail. The reason I was so confident of victory perhaps lay in the fact that I don’t do Facebook or Twitter but did do the hard foot slog and met real people on the doorstep, asked their views and interpreted them in light of the campaign messages. I admit I thought we’d do better but here in Knowlsey, a hard line “traditional” socialist area (local pub called the “Pipe & Gannex”after H. Wilson) we won 52% to 48%. In my last post I joked about Zone 1 & Zone 2 socialists but this can fairly be applied to the whole media also. C4, the BBC and print media in particular. They exist in their own little bubble, their views representing an ever narrowing perspective reflected back at them. Ironically, the exception to that generalisation is Komrad Korbyn who many people I spoke to said he did reflect their views but they would never vote for him.
That was not my opinion or something I want to see. It is simply a fact that Greenland and The Faroes are not in the EU but have MPs in the Danish Parliament, which is in the EU. I really don't care about you trying to represent my post as My opinion, when all I said was it was possible, based on the reality of Denmarks situation. Not probable, not definite, not my opinion, not what I want to see, just a possibility. Two more facts. 1) 2 opinion polls have independence in the lead in Scotland 2) Angela Merkels leader in the EU has said Germany will welcome Scotland into the EU When that happens, watch Londons banking sector up sticks and head to Edinburgh. That's specultion, not a fact, and I don't care what you think about that suggestion either.
There is. It is recognised in the UK Supreme Court that sovereignty lies with the Scottish people. In England it lies with the crown. So in blocking via Holyrood, there is a chance the Supreme Court would follow its previous verdicts and continue to recognise the people's claim on sovereignty. It's a fascinating topic
i suppose we could make like a brexiteer, or tory cabinet member and not have some kind of plan or road map prepared or maybe impersonate labour and bury our head in the sand. it really is quite shocking that they can leave it all up in the air. the longer they leave it.. you know the rest.
Tell you what........I'll be Prime Minister........ Let the Scots eff off and find out what it is really like.......(sorry Finm - as much as I like you)...... Then close the borders and patrol them with what little Armed Forces we have......Save a few million quid. Then set the Getoutstapo to work. Sieg AL..............
How many Brexiteers are now thinking 'wtf did I vote for?". Farage is only interested in attacking the EU. Has back tracked on ALL promises (just spin to get the vote he wanted...). Odd that he has his desired out come BUT ukip remain quiet about some sort of manifesto/plan moving forward. Just more bleating about immigration. Boris,,looks like he is up to something, waiting for his moment (but it wont be delivering Brexit promises.) And now the media turn their attention to Corbyn and the Labour party. Seriously? Surely the big issue here is an out campaign based on lies and Farage being two faced. The BBC and media in general have failed miserably to debate the issues properly. Was exiting the EU enough? or are people feeling conned? Looks to me like jumping out of the frying pan in to the fire. The far right are flexing their muscles. Cant believe a choice between Boris or Farage seems better than a hard working Cameron or Corbyn. Not a fan of either tbh but compared to the other two idiots there is no contest at a time when we just coming out of recession. If an election was called now, and the SNP put a candidate in to every constituency, and pledged to stay in the EU....Then I wonder what would happen..that would be a laugh. SNP running the UK. Sturgeon was the only politician that seemed to have a grasp, an answer, and the brain power. I despair tbh.
The only sad thing is that it's our job to knock them out of the Euros tomorrow. A great pity that. I'd have been rooting for Iceland. The only good news is that if Iceland wins, I won't be too gutted.
No one I know has changed their mind buddy.In fact if it wasn't for the fact that we have respect for those with an opposite view and we've got to get up and work in the morning,there'd be a helluva street party going on right now. And if there were lies on the Leave side,there were fucking monster porkies on the Remain. While you may THINK that Farage claimed lots of things like the £350m would be spent on the NHS,he actually said COULD be spent on things LIKE the NHS. Best stop believing what the dimwits of the BBC and newspapers tell you,or you'll disappear up your own arse with the stress of it . And before you say the £350m figure was a lie,it wasn't: a lot of what came back was with strings attached,in other words you can have some back but only spend it on EU flags or somesuch. You made your mind up which way to vote,that is your prerogative and no one holds it against you. But a larger number who could be bothered chose to vote the other way,people of all ages and classes...a large minority of Scots wanted out,so it's not like you had an overwhelming endorsement in that neck of the woods. You can despair away all you like:you are an EU citizen for the time being so there are 27* other countries available to you if you don't like what the majority in this country want. *For the time being anyway,that number may well reduce by a few if there is enough demand,Scotland joining the EU will help to swell the numbers of course IF the Scots want to join. I don't care for the SNP or their Leaders,nor do I care for the terrorists of the IRA sitting down with civilized people in Stormont,but democracy says I accept it if those in those countries choose them. Get over yourself buddy:you are no smarter than the rest of us,you can't see further into the future than the rest of us,and you have no more voting power than the rest of us.
UKIP has always been a joke party because their stance has always been negative: out of the EU and no or little immigration. It stops there. There isn't anything else that they credibly propose. Farage has served his purpose. He can go now.
People are looking at this as if it is unsurmountable. I often wonder at this lack of ambition. After the 2nd World War, you had an economy in tatters, huge amounts of houses destroyed and all the armed forces to repatriate and find jobs for in a country that had no money. Not only was all this done, but they launched the NHS at the same time. Brilliant! You also had a country which managed to invade and then control a quarter of the world in the 19th century. This might not be laudable, but the organisational capabilities shown were. And now we're told we can't draft in a heap of lawyers to sort out which bits of EU law we need to jettison. We don't have to jettison anything. It's already on the books. And it doesn't have to happen within any time frame anyway. What has to be agreed is what are the trading terms and what happens to migrants/emigrants. What they will decide is that anyone already in a another EU country can stay (seems fair, sensible and obvious). The only real difficulty is establishing trading terms and the extent of movement of labour in the future. Not simple, surely. But compared to clearing up WW2?
