He's desperate. The whole sorry gravy train will come off the rails without our bankrolling and he knows it. The sooner it crashes the better. Pay nothing and stand back and watch nature take its course.
The discussion today in parliament was an example of faux outrage by labour and the snp. The concern was largely the "Henry the 8th" powers where basically the government can make, adjust, etc the laws coming back without any discussion in parliament, although on most they will simply pass them through as they are, some rules will need to be altered as they are the 28 specific but the rules coming back to us will have some that need to be U.K. specific The funny thing here is opposition parties have not said that the U.K. government will actually use the Henry the 8th powers for all the returning laws but accept some will need to be. Their concern is what rules they will modify, basically saying that every rule adjustment must be assessed by parliament. The thing here is that approx 12,000 rules and laws were handed down from the eu to the U.K. government and not one saw any opposition insisting they all be reviewed/discussed as they are now insisting they must be, as they were simply told by the eu, this is what it is, you have no say. So they seem to have been perfectly ok with rules going to europe and us being told that there are no discussions, but when the rules come back to us, the opposition are insisting everything is looked at. Power grabs there are, but not by the U.K. government There has been in recent weeks certainly by the snp, labour and plyd cymru that they believe the U.K. government has another power grab also going on in regards to those areas that the devolved governments now cover. The U.K. government gave the powers over to the e.u. so when the powers come back, they would as per international rules, give the powers to the U.K. government and not the devolved governments. This is even more relevant as they would not be taking powers away from the devolved governments because for most of them, they were given away before the devolved governments even existed so never had them to lose or give away. If there is any power grab attempt then it is from the devolved governments trying to grab powers they have never had
I think (know) your wrong re devolved powers. whats not reserved (should) automatically go back to the devolved administrations. while there is a fairish argument that some should be reserved to maintain continuity the devolved administrations main complaint is the lack of consultation on these matters.
How can the laws go back to the devolved governments if they never had them fin? most were given away before the devolved governments were even formed. Add to that the powers were between the U.K. government and the eu government. The devolved governments were never involved
that's the gig whether you accept it or not. plenty info on it. buuuuuut as any informed person can tell you and as sewal has proved. another worthless exorcize and broken promise. power devolved is power retained. ie it can be overruled by the uk gov if yer willing to handle the political fall out.
No fin,I'm not going to let you wriggle out of this one this time with another attempted divert. What powers do you think were taken directly from the devolved governments and given to the eu that should now be returned to the devolved governments
lets don't start with the pish ok. noob. fishing and farming. they are not reserved, the convention is, what's not reserved is devolved. simples. there is mountains of articles on it including SoS fluffy mundell guaranteeing it. but now wiggling out of it, bbc R.scot questioned him on it this morning. a question was answered on it today at FMQ's. the answer being from the scots law society or what ever "power grab." go looking yourself, you wouldn't approve of my links. way to much accuracy about them.
I agree lets stop the pish fin so lets get to actual facts than nonsense you keep providing. We Joined the european community in what was the common market 73. Three years later we had the cod wars with Iceland. Wales became a devolved government in 97 with Northern Ireland and Scotland in 98 some 25 years after we had joined the eu by which time the meat, fat and cholesterol had been added by the u.k. to the eu bone All were given by the soveriegn countries government well before the devolved countries were even arguing over what colour to paint their new buildings walls So again I ask you before another divert is attempted, What powers do you think were taken directly from the devolved governments and given to the eu that should now be returned to the devolved governments
Finally some honesty At no time has any of the devolved governments gone to the eu and said, here, have this, because the devolved is like a county council, the U.K. government does the negotiating for the U.K., powers to the eu come from the U.K. government and they will be returned to the U.K. government. At that point any devolved government then has to put a case forward if it feels they should have powers or inputs into the laws that they feel effect them directly. That's it and in answer to my question to you fin, as you seem to be struggling with it and I do like to help, no devolved government from the U.K. has ever given powers from them, to the eu.
yip, I just made it up. bar the bit about the fact devolution was set up on a list bases, ie, whats not reserved is devolved. and also the bit about as sewal. just take my word for it. or go looking. if it aint to inconvenient the truth that is. if it is tough titty.
the member state, the member state is made up of England, wales, N.I and Scotland. its called the UK parliament. lets not forget, parliament is the collective term government is the ruling partys ministers and secretaries? . normally decisions are made after debate and votes, not by decree. uh huh. the last three are devolved administrations and a government. wales, northern Ireland administrations and Scottish government have as a result of the 1998 devolution act, all powers that are not reserved. fishing and farming is not reserved. but they "the uk gov" can over rule the other parliaments despite a certain promise that was made 3years ago as sewal proved when tested recently.
The U.K. government is the deciding factor as recently discovered in the courts, they have the last word even though it was in the devolved goverments acts for all devolved governments. They didn't suddenly go, oi, where the fuck did that come from, it's been there from the outset it's just some chose to ignore it knowing it was there until they could go no further so like most pushy people, when they couldn't get their own way in an agreement, they went to court and the court said no. The same as the indi vote, the rules have always been there because they were the agreed rules when devolved governments were agreed and put in place. So there never was any powers taken directly from the devolved governments, never. The powers will be returned to the negotiating and definitive power, the U.K. government for us then to sort out in house through parliament. Now, we know the snp government act like a bully and cry like the boy who cried wolf and have been shown to huff and bluff and back the fuck down. That said, I'm sure the rules will be dealt with within the standards of parliament. All four nations will discuss this in the U.K. parliament through it's representitives, the devolved governments will put their cases forward through their representitives, that is how it works.
I think the devolved governments are just trying to maintain what was agreed in the act. you can jump up and down and continue to insult and inflame. but the devolution act states whats not reserved is devolved. some care some don't. can the uk survive the fall out?
Fin there will be no fall out, we have seen from Nic. the minute she thinks her career is threatened (loosing a third of the snp's in Westminster and a substantial vote decrease in Scotland) she cowers back down because she would rather Scotland lose than her lose. Thankfully most English, Welsh and Northern Irish like the Scots, even the grumpy fucks like you The U.K. will negotiate it's way out of the eu and then the U.K. will sort things out within it's own borders and all this "fall out" nonsense is just that, a bully who failed to bully a country has now gone back to doing the job she was employed to actually do for Scotland, I hope she can do better than she has but again I must point out to you, Scotland is not the U.K. and the snp is not all Scots and the sooner that is realised, the better for all
what about wales and northern Ireland? yer focused anger seems to have managed to blur them out? what's carwin jnes position? no point asking the DUP but what about sian fain? there all leaders in devolved administrations with a duty of care of their respective constituents. that also have powers that are not reserved. I know there has been talks and agreements made between them. anyhoo, yer getting silly again. later chap.
Best article I've read in a long time. Clear, waffle-free articulation of a truth so obvious its truly bizarre that more people who expend so much hot air on "Europe" aren't capable of seeing it. Standout sentence: "Peace is never an eternal state of affairs, but perhaps it will last longer if countries treat each other as they are, and not as they would want them to be". Amen.
Agree, whilst some seem to focused in the eu versus us, it's quite clear we feel we are getting out before it implodes. Bernier yesterday said after the new migrant job leaks think document that it seemed unfair. The two main ideas were that skilled migrants could stay in the U.K. for 5 years and unskilled 2 years as long as they both had a job. Bernier however made no comment what so ever on Macrons workers rights reviews were he said that despite him being unable too due to France remaining a eu country, he wants a ban on eu migrants who work in France staying in France longer than 12 months so to protect jobs for the French people. Which he can't do but needs to do. Youth unemployment in the U.K. this year is at 10.6%, across europe it averages at 30% http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05871 http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/13/news/economy/europe-youth-unemployment-france/index.html You then have the Visegrad group or v4 of Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and the Czech republic who have formed their own alliance within the eu and are very up yours eu we will do as we want and are now in open defiance of many eu rules and standards. You have Turkey at the bottom who are holding back the floodgates whilst receiving billions in eu cash who were told by Merkel in this weeks German election that Turkey will never be in the eu, we'll see what happens there. Greece who most europeans know the eu, the ecb and the imf shafted in a way that that wonga would have been proud will at some point massively default again on the loans. The idea that we are leaving a perfect body or a body that just needs some fine tweaking is the thoughts of the deluded, confused or those with a self interest. The eu at it's outset was a worthy institution however what it has become has destabilised most of europe, the exact thing it claims to have not done.
