We're still waiting for the EU to make "sufficient progress" with reform of the CAP which they promised Blair in 2005 in return for him surrendering a big chunk of the UK's rebate. To date, no reform whatsoever has taken place and never will. The EU are full of shit, always have been, always will be. There is no point "negotiating" with thieves, liars and charlatans. Pay them nothing, just walk and leave them to their games.
I'm surprised Corbyn hasn't been on German TV saying Merkel has no legitmacy to form a government and he is ready to rule.
The funny thing on the leaving fee. We have agreed to pay for our legal obligation that happens until 2020. The eu said we must also take into account the next cycle of seven years on the moral grounds, the next cycle starts in 2020 -2027, even though they will have had 3 years notice from us about leaving since the vote. Now, if we have a two year transition and unless they negotiate it out in advance, then we will supposedly leave in 2021 and a year into the next 7 year cycle. This would mean possibly, the brexit bill could be the 10 billion for each of those 7 years as well as the pre legal requirements of 10 billion per year could see our final exit bill upto 90 billion to leave. This does not take into account that during the two year transition we would still be liable to any rule changes/financial requests the eu make. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks because I suspect if we bow down to more money, I suspect the eu will negotiate a way to keep controlling the U.K. for many years to come.
The euro recovered from a two-month low against the yen touched in Asian trade on Monday, with investors brushing off broader political risks arising from German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s failure to form a three-way coalition government.
The euro recovered from a two-month low against the yen touched in Asian trade on Monday, with investors brushing off broader political risks arising from German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s failure to form a three-way coalition government.
You sure? it looks like it went down from 133.8 a few days ago to 131.1 at the moment? It's looking more that a new election will be called in Germany with No one wishing to partner up with Merkel in parliament. It's one thing for brexit to be happening but when europes queen bee, the powerhouse behind the eu looks like she not might be able to make a government, that will increase euro instability and reduce confidence. I did say some months ago watch the German elections. Throughout europe's history these events have always had the same result. Whether it be the Romans, the prussians, The French and even the Germans 3 times ( twice before and now the third) when it goes to a superstate, it never lasts. There are just too many countries with different cultures, histories, ways of doing things and national pride. If the eu returned to it's origins and stayed that way, as a trade body instead of a superstate, I'm sure we'd be in there like a rat up a drain pipe.
If you voted Leave,you would remember being called a Racist for daring to have a different view than those who wished to remain. I didn't find it funny,I found it refreshingly honest.
you are right that is what we should do, but as we have a very weak government they will give in, pay a huge amount of money and in return get......................nothing, and the EU will then demand more again, and again and again, time to get some hardliners in to action!
Unfortunately I'm not sure whether it was that honest as if you Google the name and section of the tweet you can find it, then it looks like it was supposed to be a joke 'apparently' Still, I get your point about being labelled a racist on the basis of voting leave, but that tends to happen by uneducated short term sighted hypocritical wankers. It's never been about race to me, never will be.
"Mr Dave Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him. "Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership,if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account". "I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Ah yes Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement" In Mr Barniers office - Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club? "Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets". "Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet". "As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount". "That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"! "But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis. "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill". "But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly stocked".. "You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year". "You therefore owe us £2600 for the year". "Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis. "No of course not Mr Davis". "You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier. "Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers". "Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year" I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis. No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!" "Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof". "Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?" "Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week", your share of the bill is £2000". "I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?". "Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension". "We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month". "He's not well you know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it". "This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier. "Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!" "Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier. "Piss off!" says Mr Davis"... (copy/paste from Facebook contributor)
I will apologise in advance for the source, the daily mail, but I wanted people to see what "the other side" are seeing. There will be people like the mail in in every country. They are often branded racists, xenophobes, misogynists, islamaphobes, un-educated , far right neo nazi's for nothing more than saying the eu project is failing and it refuses to listen. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5106147/EU-implodes-nation-nation-turns-far-Right.html When Cameron announced the vote, whether you agree with it happening or not, it was needed very much in the way the Scots question needed a vote. Cameron went to the eu and said look, we can win this if you just give me something to show the eu is worth staying in. Their reply was largely, you created this mess what on earth did you think you were doing giving the great unwashed a democratic vote, you ain't getting jack as no one would dare leave the eu we are glorious, no one would dare leave the eu because of the consequences. Sure enough he came back with less than even crumbs from the table and people started to see the arrogance of the eu. The vote was the right one. Many remainers however, unable to stop suckling from the eu's tit saw it as a betrayal and started labelling everyone who did not vote the same as them as Nazi's because only Nazi's could not love the eu. For a brief moment mostly through shock I feel, Junker not so much but Tusk said we need to make changes, They didn't. What they did do is close ranks and now have programmes to centralise control of all the eu nations armies and also to set up a eu economic policy centralisation that effecitively tells nations what the eu wants the independent nations budgets to be and they can be fined/punished if they do not do the eu's wishes. The article shows however it is not just the U.K. that has issues with the eu. France had a close shave but close enough to pick Macron but still high levels of anti eu feelings remain in France, Hungary's elections brought in an anti eu government as did Austria's and even Polands which is largely not being reported. Poland who takes out 3 times more than it puts in, is on a direct collison course with the eu and now Germany itself. The rock of the eu, Merkel lies in tatters and whether you agree with that or not you cannot deny in all of the eu's time where Merkel has been involved, Germany has been the powerhouse. At the moment she actually looks less stable than our own government. You cannot keep throwing everyone must be a nazi or it must be Russia's fault as the eu starts to crumble because at some point you have to be honest. The eu stopped representing europeans many years ago and it stopped listening too. It made noises of reform but our own negotiations shows it's arrogance where Barnier only within the last few days has said in effect, even if we pay the full amount they want, there will be little difference between what they are offering and wto. We often think in current times, us versus the eu. I'd challenge some who are so eu that nothing will change their mind, to look at other countries news sources and see the one constant of problems is the eu itself
Below is an article by Gisela Stuart printed in this morning's daily Telegraph. She makes much the same points as Noobie does. She also reiterates the fatal paradox at the heart of the European Project, which is that no member state ever thinks federally. Every one of them joined because they thought it would be in their NATIONAL interests, even Germany. The power-crazed, boozed-sodden ideologues dream of single state hegemony but no one else does. The "union" part of the EU is illusory. It is a group of nation states talking to each other through a bureaucratic forum but each putting their own needs first. And it will always be that way because as Stuart says, democracy only functions through consent. In the end, heads of government must answer to their electorates, not the EU Commission, or any other tier of supranationalism, and those electorates are not "European", they are Germans, Italians, Britons, Poles etc and none of them will ever give their consent for their identity to be dissolved. In essence, for the European Project to function, it requires the heads of government from member states to vote for the dissolution of their own countries but if they try to do that without an explicit mandate form their voters - which they'll never get - they will cease to be in government. There is no way to square this circle and the harder the EU tries, the more extreme national politics will become as electorates resist, and the EU by it's blind and tin-eared imperialism brings about the very thing it thinks it is protecting against: Merkel’s woes show how Europe is shifting Key EU leaders don’t talk of a superstate, but their actions point to one. The only problem is the voters The Daily Telegraph 22 Nov 2017 GISELA STUART Anew sensation is coursing through the German body politic: panic. It has been brewing since September’s dramatic election result, which saw Chancellor Angela Merkel’s CDU party much diminished, and the Right-wing Alternative fur Deutschland (AFD) capture 94 parliamentary seats. Naturally, Chancellor Merkel did what she always does when things get tough – reassure her people “das schaffen wir” – we can do this. Not this time. Her attempts to form a coalition have unexpectedly collapsed and Germany is in turmoil. I have no doubt the Federal Republic will find a short-term solution. It has a functioning government and while this is inconvenient for Brexit talks, it’s all manageable. But it does raise wider issues about consensus, democratic legitimacy and the future of the EU. We are talking tectonic plates here, not just local difficulties. Before we had a single currency it was perfectly possible to talk about a two-speed Europe, but there has never been a currency union without a political union. With its dream of creating a supranational identity, replacing ideology with a bureaucratic promise of a better tomorrow and becoming a significant global player, the EU has over-stretched itself. Like it or not, to have a functioning single currency you need some basic things such as a single minister of economy, the ability to transfer debts and enforcement mechanisms. Not that the superstate is simply economic. Last week, 23 EU members signed a defence pact to increase military cooperation. Meanwhile, President Emmanuel Macron sketches out his plans for a refounding of the European project, Jean-claude Juncker delivers aspirational speeches, and there are suggestions that the European Parliament seats vacated by departing British MEPS be given to members elected from a pan-european list. Politicians may have stopped talking about a United States of Europe, but all their actions point to one. There is just one problem: the voters aren’t with them – not even, as the failure to form a government has shown, in Germany. And in a democracy, that is a fatal flaw. The failure of the German coalition negotiations reflects the deeper fracture of democratic consent apparent across the EU. Every European election I’ve ever been involved in has been decided on national issues fought by national political parties. We have no paneuropean political parties and no European demos. The European constitution was rejected by voters first in France and then in the Netherlands. The UK was promised a referendum by all three political parties in 2005, only for the promise to be ditched after the rehashed constitution emerged as the Lisbon Treaty. Having learnt the lesson that asking the people is a dangerous thing, France, the Netherlands and the UK passed the treaty by parliamentary procedures. The rise of Eurosceptic parties should come as no surprise. What loyalty do the people and governments of the EU27 have to Brussels’ fetish superstate project? Poland and Hungary may hope to profit from EU membership, but they show no great eagerness to comply with rules and obligations. And while German politicians are reluctant to talk about “German interests”, in Germany you see border controls when coming from Austria. Nor is there appetite for tax increases to make up for the funds lost when the EU’S second largest net contributor – Britain – leaves. Talk of transfer payments to Greece or any other euro country that may run into trouble is a complete no no. Indeed, objections to debt mutualisation were one of the reasons German coalition talks failed. The reality is that Germany, like other European nations, still puts her own interests above EU interests, because democracies require consent. If eurozone countries want a superstate they must spell out what that means – fiscal transfers and all – to their voters. And if the voters say no, act on that. Currently EU members like to fudge things then, if voters disagree, they are tempted to “dissolve the people and elect another one”, as Bertolt Brecht said. Heeding people’s wishes is a far better way forward, and for the EU that may mean shelving its grandiose superstate dream and accepting the reality of doing less. For if Angela Merkel can’t sell the dream, who can?
I knew you'd be in like a rat up a drain pipe chuckles However I do wish you'd make your mind up. Only the other day you were saying Brexit was causing this. But I again would raise the key word with you, Growth. Wonderswheretheoldforumsmileyformikedroppingis?
