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British Indy: What Happens Now?

Discussion in 'Wasteland' started by Loz, May 23, 2015.

?
  1. Full Brexit with "no EU deal" on the 29th March.

  2. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a general election and new negotiations.

  3. Request Extension to article 50 to allow cross party talks and a new deal to be put to EU.

  4. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a second referendum on 1. Remain in EU or 2. Full Brexit.

  5. Table a motion in parliament to Remain in EU WITHOUT a referendum.

  6. I don't know or I don't care anymore

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Germany’s Radical Foreign Policy Direction
    BY RICHARD PALMER • JANUARY 12



    We have reached the end of “the good Germany.”


    That’s not my analysis, it’s the conclusion of Christiane Hoffmann, deputy director of Der Spiegel, one of Europe’s most popular newsmagazines. She wrote:

    The new global situation will also mean a departure from the good Germany. When principles collide with pragmatism, when values clash with interests, Berlin will be forced to make difficult decisions. But how far should we go? What means are we prepared to employ in order to defend Europe, to bring the Middle East closer to peace or to stabilize Africa?

    She is not the only one saying this. German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel is also paving the way for Germany to more openly and aggressively pursue its own interest.

    “If your focus is solely on values, you won’t find success in a world where others are relentlessly pursuing their interests,” he told Der Spiegel in an interview published January 8. “In a world full of meat-eaters, vegetarians have a tough time.”

    The German foreign minister is implying that Germany is about to start eating meat!

    Germany is on the brink of a transformation. But what is it transforming to?

    First, we need to get a better picture of what Germany is transforming from. The assumption behind Hoffmann’s and Gabriel’s words is that in recent decades Germany has not put Germany first. That must be confronted to get an accurate picture of Germany’s future.

    Germany may not have pushed its own interests openly and aggressively as other powers, but like everyone else, it has still put itself first.

    The war in Yugoslavia is the best example. At the United Nations, some referred to the breakup of Yugoslavia as “Genscher’s war” because of the role German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher played in starting it. Germany’s role in this breakup is thoroughly documented in our free booklet Germany’s Conquest of the Balkans.

    But Germany was cautious and discreet about it. Once it got the United States on board, Germany was happy to let the Americans take the lead—and the spotlight.

    In other circumstances, Germany may have been less ambitious than it could have been otherwise. Its guilt for World War i and especially World War ii and the Holocaust has held it back. But those memories are fading, crises are multiplying, and Germany’s postwar caution is ending. Germany is now less weighed down with cumbersome attempts to hide its power.

    On May 9, 1945—just one day after World War ii ended in Europe—Herbert W. Armstrong gave a public lecture warning about this power in Europe going “underground.” There would be a “third round,” he told his audience. Soon he was warning that Germany would lead an economic union of nations in Europe.

    In 1991, the second year of the Trumpet’s existence, editor in chief Gerald Flurry published an article titled “Biggest World News Happening in Germany”—reminding the world of the warnings Mr. Armstrong gave. We’ve continued these warnings through all these years. Others have increasingly begun to sound similar warnings.

    “The question of Europe now is again the question of Germany, of what it wants, what it fears, what it will and won’t do,” George Friedman writes in his 2015 book Flashpoints. “This is the old question of Europe. It goes along with the oldest question in Europe: When will the next war start, and where will it be fought?”

    Last year, Niklas Frank, son of a prominent Nazi official, caused a minor stir when he told bbc, “Don’t trust us”—us Germans, that is. We invited him to come visit us and to elaborate further. “As long as we are dominating Europe with our industry, everything is OK,” he told us. “But if they dare to take away our money, then it will become dangerous” (you can read a condensed version of the interview here).
     
  2. If you believe, as some do, that Germany sought to control europe once more but this time politically and financially, then through the eu they achieved that. The trouble is as with any group doing such a thing, those empires never last.

    Now assuming Putin is behind most things, I suspect he can see the eu project becoming less democratic and more dictatorial and the gamble that was the eu's of bringing in old eastern block countries to boost the membership, is now failing. Even as we speak after the right's moving into governments throughout europe and today's Czech elections with the pro Russian candidate winning the first round, it would appear the eu is losing control of many of the old eastern block countries

    Many of the old eastern block are losing faith with the eu project and did not swap one dictator (the USSR) for another, they see the eu as weak and point to Merkel's immigration policy but also the panicking of the eu to centralise and remove independent countries own history, finances and independence, that is why you have such groups as the Visegrád Group

    If it is putin pulling the strings then the next step will be to destabilize those old eastern blocks relationship with the eu's top table even further to a point that a number of old eastern block/now eu countries, will return to side with Putin in a Russia/eastern block alliance.

     
  3. "A new study has calculated a ‘No Deal’ Brexit would cost the EU some £507 billion, while the UK reaps a £641 billion windfall.
    Cardiff University’s Professor Patrick Minford argues that, for the United Kingdom, “a breakdown would be a short-term nuisance but a substantial economic gain [over the longer term]”.

    For the EU, on the other hand, ‘No Deal’ is “both a short-term nuisance and a substantial economic loss [over the longer term]”.
    The economist explains that Britain’s exit from the EU Customs Union would cost the European Union “two years’ worth of the terms of trade gain its producers make on its balance of trade surplus with the UK, estimated at around £18 billion a year”, with two years’ worth of that equating to a “£36 billion one-off loss”.
    Britain, on the other hand, would enjoy a “one-off gain” of £38 billion in savings on its EU budget contribution, and a £180 billion windfall from the “long-term gain” represented by “free trade, own-regulation and own-border-control”.
    He also suggests that, as the balance of trade currently favours the EU, the UK would gain a total of £433 billion tariff revenue from EU exporters.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Minford concludes: “So plus £641 billion for the UK versus minus £507 billion for the EU: it could not be more open and shut who least wants a breakdown. For the UK a breakdown would be a short-term nuisance but a substantial economic gain; for the EU it is both a short-term nuisance and a substantial economic loss.”
    Despite much of the establishment media having appeared to buy into the narrative that Brussels holds all the cards in the Brexit talks and the United Kingdom is at its mercy, evidence is mounting that EU leaders are not unaware of the danger they face if a deal with Britain is not struck.
    The European Commission has already suggested that regional aid for Germany and France will have to be discontinued if Britain’s budget contributions cannot be made up elsewhere, and Germany, in particular, faces a 3.8 billion euro hole in its finances.
    Hungary’s foreign minister has also warned that the bloc faces a “nightmare scenario” in the event of ‘No Deal’.
    “If there’s no deal, if there’s no comprehensive economic, trade and investment agreement, then we will be in big trouble in Europe, because the last time we were able to implement a free trade agreement was in 2011 with [South] Korea,” he told the BBC in 2017.
    “So the problem is the EU is very slow on free trade agreements, and if Britain gets free hands then you will be able to sign free trade agreements with India, with Turkey, with the U.S., with Australia, with which the European Union does not have free trade agreements.
    “So, if this is the case, then it will harm our competitiveness, harm the competitiveness of Europeans furthermore … we want the most comprehensive economic trade and investment partnership with the UK in the future.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/01/15/study-no-deal-cost-eu-507bn-britain-gains-641bn/
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. it would appear the uk is trying to hide the goal posts again.
    v.v.v little coverage of the scot govs impact assessment yesterday.
    interesting survey results. i guess we are just thick up here.
    upload_2018-1-16_9-59-13.jpeg
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. fin come on, the snp not Scots assessment and even then it's still part of the remainers project fear. She repeated little that hasn't already been said and again, as always, claimed the predictions based until 2030. This woman couldn't even predict the snp was going to lose a third of its mps in westminster only a few months later, let alone predict what is going to happen in 12 years time, she won't even be there.

    South park has more accurate predictions than the snp government
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. really? can you point to the parts that are the same in uk impact assessment?
     
  7. Apart from those who willingly took part in a democratic election and one side, who lost , have had within them a group that have behaved like children ever since and constantly referencing 2030 when a the deal hasn't even been started on stage 2 and b no deal has been agreed yet? those same parts?

    Slight edit, I remembered something from yesterday, I know you don't like happy thoughts fin but see the opportunity here that others see

    https://news.sky.com/video/could-robots-plug-brexit-labour-shortage-11208910
     
    #11268 noobie, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  8. aye noob, you know yer stuff. or is is that stuffed?
     
  9. Nope I know my stuff, I could advise Nic so she could get something right for a change but I know if I talked to her I would constantly stare at her hairy top lip, very off putting.

    If you watched that sky news vid fin you would see we have a unique opportunity for the U.K. to be world leaders in the field of automation instead of , us scots aren't knocking out enough kids so we need the migrants but even the migrants are now so well paid in their own country that they are staying home as their own economies do well.

    Funny thing here fin is, British companies have not invested in automation because paying the minimum wage was cheaper, now as countries like poland, lithuania etc etc own economies do better in raising standards, they are staying at home more and we are running out of cheap labour whether we stay in the eu or not.

    Our kids don't want to work the land or go in factories but want to do technology jobs, but if you look at europe, whilst so many poles have come here, they had a shortfall of their own cheap labour for factories and the land.

    They solved this by turning a blind eye to the cheap labour supply from the Ukraine, Russia and believe it or not, North Korea. Poland however with european money has seen raised standards by a considerable amount and are now seen as one of the most anti immigration countries within the eu, which is why the eu are constantly taking Poland to court.

    Within the eu, you have said it yourself, economies are still with growth and with that you will run out of cheap labour, so you will have to go outside of the eu for even cheaper labour or start now to develop automation which brexit has given the U.K. a fantastic opportunity to be a world leader now, automation will reduce jobs for generations BUT if our kids are having even less kids to a point that we are so short that we need 3.5 million europeans then at some point, we have the unique opportunity to balance things out, more automation= less migrants needed and also ensures we have more technological jobs into areas our kids seem to want to do.

    This was the point of brexit, to plan way beyond the next election, the snp have trouble planning beyond the next independence vote demand.
     
    #11270 noobie, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  10. deary deary me. and to think i felt genuine hart felt sorrow for you after yer two lonely trump posts the other day, i genuinely thought you might have issues.
    i think we need that poll mr R talked about.
     
    • Drama Queen Drama Queen x 1
  11. finm, are you agreeing with noob here? Or have I failed to follow some abstruse chain of logic in denial of what he said?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. does noob need your protection?
    what did noob say after the first paragraph? i switched off. was it the part in the uk brexit impact report he was referencing earlier?
     
  13. I think fin is feeling uneasy because I noticed Nics bleach hair lip, I think he's worried I might steal her from him and turn her English
     
    • WTF WTF x 1
  14. Well, it's just that I looked up the word "abstruse" in an online dictionary and found a picture of you staring back at me. I then wanted to see what would happen when I used your word on you.

    It wasn't as funm as I thought it would be.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. nah, it never is when yer found out. :upyeah:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. Did someone say 'R'? I've got an 1199R!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. You are too modest, finm. You're fracking hilarious!
     
  18. nice to see you have regained your composure. good lad. :upyeah:
     
  19. I took a leaf from your book, if you don't mind : o )
     
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