British Indy: What Happens Now?

So you believe our own government is manipulating the figures?
I would certainly shop around..but as I cannot see better deals I won't move to another provider(are there any at all?) just for the sake of it. Also see the nonsense "if we lose they will lose", is this the way to deal in 2018. WTF?? ... List me the better providers? You do realize that a lot of the big players in the UK industry are EU companies(not Commonwealth)..wait until they move operations back. Why do you think Carlos Ghosn met TM last year? Why do you think they want to meet again in the next couple of weeks? If bad deal is struck they will move factories abroad or ask for ££££ compensation.
It is a very fast changing global economy..IMHO we are dancing on very thin ice, a bad move can have consequences for decades..I believe these aren't the best times to prove the others who won the WW2.

 

Sky and the BBC cherry picked the negative possibilities from the study and ignored the positives.
And we ain't losing the game either
Please don't be so arrogant as to assume that you know better than the 17.2+ million people who voted to leave,because you don't.
No one does.
But millions of people used their experiences,(in some cases decades of experience),to decide whether they wanted the country to remain or leave the EU...there is no right or wrong,it is what it is,the majority voted to leave,and that is the end of it
And the Leave campaign isn't in denial of reality: the claims with regard to figures etc were far more accurate than anything the Remain camp put forward as evidence,despite the best efforts of the opposition to interpret them differently they were based on historical and provable fact.
Sure there are people who have tried their best to spout their interpretation of figures and statements into something that was not claimed or not stated,but ultimately it is possible to research that those claims are correct.
Now take a look back at every single short term forecast and claim made by those who campaigned to stay in and tell the world which of them was correct.
The answer is: Zero.
Not one.
Not a single,solitary,example of a Remain forecast has been right.
And if they can't forecast correctly what will happen in a year,they won't get it right for a decade hence.
The Remain camp is all about pretending that forecasts,projections,and opinion is fact,when it isn't.
And the Leave camp is all about look how much we've been paying,look at the trading partners we used to have,look at the extra we have to pay in EU tariffs on imported goods,look at the extra pressure on the NHS...things that Remoaners like to ignore because they cannot argue with them,they are facts,not stories told by biased,and in many cases bribed organisations and individuals.
But without all of the above,it was a DEMOCRATICALLY HELD REFERENDUM.
Numerous politicians warned the country on television that leaving means leaving the Customs Union,the single market,etc,etc.and the MAJORITY STILL VOTED TO LEAVE.
The very least I expected from our country was that the ,(partial),democracy we've enjoyed for a long time would be supported by the electorate.
It was too much to ask,obviously...those who voted differently to the majority think it's ok to campaign to IGNORE democracy simply because THEIR imagination pictured something different to the majority....amazing...imagine if the Scots had voted for Independence but the SNP ignored it,or that the Labour won the General Election but the Conservatives refused to leave No.10....ffs I never heard the like,the world has gone bloody barmy...
Those who think THEY have lost the game WILL lose the game,but it won't be because of Brexit,it will be because they are devoid of imagination and so dogmatic that they will shield their eyes in case they see a gift horse,let alone look it in the mouth.
Whereas those who think THEY have won WILL have won...they'll be out like a shot rounding up gift horses and imagining what they can do with extra money and wider variety of goods they be able to enjoy.

 

For every Japanese motor executive fretting about it,there'll be one from BMW,Audi,Volkswagen,PSA,Seat,Volvo,Scania,DAF,Iveco,etc....etc....etc...
Tariffs work two ways.
And if you buy a Japanese car made in Japan,you already pay 10.2% + VAT in EU tariffs,and on any Jap bike I think it's 6% + VAT

 

That fails to recognise that the biggest losers will be you and me. Either by loss of jobs and work or because your new vehicle will cost more to buy.

 

isn't it ironic that the two areas expected to be the biggest losers over the next 10-15 years are the N/E of england that voted leave and Scotland that voted remain. and worse again for the scots as "taking back control" looks increasingly like powers are gonna be striped from holirood. as predicted.
anyhoo, wonder how "Britain first" are facing up to the likelihood of the first Britain, whose remains where uncovered in Cheddar Gorge and now reconstructed, are looking lil less like an Ayrian race role model than maybe they would of liked. . teehee.

 

you're funny. We are more likely too and have done, to lose jobs through technology than leaving the eu, never seen you say lets stop technology to save jobs though.

Quick question, what is the difference between 17,378,581 and 17,410,742

 

hmm, do you work for the OBR? because if that's the result from june 2016, looks like you got yer figures wrong again.

 

In 1961 the U.K. sought to join what was the eec, It was not welcomed by French President Charles de Gaulle who saw it as a threat to his goal of using the EEC to amplify France's voice in world affairs. He was also concerned about the UK's close ties with the US. So he used France's veto as one of the original members to block the U.K.'s application. A bit of a selfish cvnt move given how many British and Americans gave up their life to free France only 16 years earlier. He again vetoed the U.K.'s application in 63 as well as Ireland's and Denmark's.

Ten years later in 1973 the U.K. finally was accepted into the EC but does not hold a referendum till 1975. If ever you wanted "that wasn't on the ballot paper" then this would have been it, the people of the U.K. were told it was and intended to be little more than a trade forum. The yes majority to the EC was 17,378,581. That majority democratic vote was respected and acted upon because that is what you do in a democracy when you hold a democratic vote by the people

After 41 years in the eec/ec/eu, what we were told it would be, had morphed into something no one had ever asked for and had turned from a trade group into a united states of europe and a dictatorial government so the people were asked, in the home of modern democracy, do you want to stay within the eu as it has become or leave through a simple, leave the eu or stay in the eu vote.

The British electorate used democracy and in the largest vote in modern times, the majority vote of 17,410,742 decided we should leave. It seems that given on both times the winning vote was over 17 million. Now with an updated vote after 41 years, it's time to move on again.

 

Many of the cars made here are exported to the EU - that was why the Japanese set up here. So, it's about balance of payments, we will need to buy less European cars/bikes and more made here.
Most of the predictions on the economy haven't come "true" ...because they are modelled on when we leave....we haven't left yet so the effects aren't apparent. One thing that DID happen is our currency is worth 30% less ... it has its up side but also downsid, depends who you are.
Global economies are picking up generally ...its only natural that we should follow suit, the rate of growth may be less because of Brexit. This needs to be off set.
I am originally from NZ and we had the same when the UK joined the EEC and let the commonwealth fend for itself, it hurt short term, but we survived by finding new markets and in the looooong term it's been OK.

 

Let's call everything we do not like Fake news..very trendy lately. Covfefe...did help a lot.
If sky and bbc are spreading fake news pretending they are based on official documents, I guess the Gov. has the means to stop them from spreading lies? I am cetainly sure the figures are the ones found in the Gov estimate. Now if Gov got the prediction right or not only time will tell.
Leave is Leave..as far as I am aware there is even a date set for this..Alea iacta est, therefore no return at this stage.
Yes definitely more Leave votes then Remain, however I guess as a Remainer I still have the right to share my opinion on here without being called arrogant?
A good couple of weeks ago you mentioned New Zealand lamb import as and example of what you can buy tax free once out from the EU. Do you remember I copied a file that clearly stated that there is no tax on NZ lamb import.Should have called your point "deliberate misleading" or "fake facts"? I did not, genuine mistake from your side, one cannot look into every single item imported in UK..we share opinions I learned couple of things being highlighted from a different perspective and also agree with some of the ideas/principles and positives if out...I am not saying the EU is perfect as it is, however I still believe we are better position with "free" access to the market.

 

Sky and the BBC etc are not spreading fake news in this instance,they are only reporting the parts of the Government studies that support their argument.
Governments cannot stop the media telling fibs either,in this country we have a free press,(or at least we did have,until certain sections of society demanded that "free",only applies to the things they want to hear,and everything else is,"hate speech").
You said this: "Cannot even be surprised by the Leave campain total denial of the reality...nothing new under the sky".
Hardly a complimentary remark,the inference being that only Leavers are wrong,and that anyone not a Leaver must be right.Unless there's a hidden meaning in there that you did not make plain?
Everyone has an opinion,and everyones opinion is equally valid.I just don't care for sneering generalisations aimed at the the 17.2+ million people who see things more positively than yourself- I appreciate,for instance,that your opinion isn't the same as mine,that doesn't mean I think you are stupid,or that you are blind to the crap that sometimes comes from the Remain camp,I just assume that your life experiences have led you to form a different opinion.
Having an opinion is one thing,salgging off others for not sharing it is another.
If I recall correctly,(I'm not going back to look),I apologised for my mistake regarding NZ lamb,I had not realised that the tariff situation had changed pretty recently.Wasn't fake news,it was no longer applicable,I accepted responsibility for it,but the fundamental facts remain: many goods imported from outside the EU are more expensive than they need to be,because the EU have applied tariffs to protect industries that do not necessarily exist in this country.
Leavers have 40 plus-years of EU history to look back on,they can re-watch the speeches and promises made when Ted Heath convinced the British Electorate to support membership of the Common Market,(there was no Referendum until after GB joined),they can now read the documents that show the French only changed their minds about British membership in order to gain access to British fishing grounds via the CFP,(which was never mentioned until the application for membership had been made),they can see the subsequent Treaties that chipped away at British sovereignty and usurped British law,they could see EU money being given to countries as bribes to encourage them to join the EU.
And lots more.
There is an old saying: "when you are in a hole,stop digging".
What started as a very small hole has become a very big,very expensive,and very deep hole,so deep that there is almost no escape.
The majority view in a democratically held Referendum,(where politicians and celebrities repeatedly warned of the consequences of a leave vote,that we would have to leave the single market,the customs union etc etc,which led to the biggest voter turnout in our history by the way),was,despite the doomy and gloomy predictions,to Leave.
In a nutshell,to stop digging before it was too late to ever get out.
You may not like it,and that is your right,but it takes some neck to dismiss all of those years of experience and knowledge on the basis of projections without any underlying basis in fact.
As it happens many countries trade freely with the EU under WTO rules without paying a membership fee,and the EU export far more to the UK than the UK exports to the EU.
Those countries that trade with the EU under WTO rules are not compelled to accept the four freedoms of free movement either.
So if it's possible to trade with the EU under WTO rules,(thats the EU who will pay far more to the UK in tariffs than vice-versa due to the massive trade imbalance),without paying £350 million a week,(gross), in membership fees,and without accepting the free movement of people,(which is causing a huge amount of unrest all over Europe),it isn't a question of finding reasons to stay in.
It's more like,"who the hell would want to?".

 

the figures are irelevent noob, the population has grown by 10mill since 72, tho i dont know about those eligible to vote. these figures are more relevant to me 51%,45%,55%, 62%. polling now suggests 68%
i wonder how accurate these trade figures are. according to Jim Rodgers the uk has jack all to sell, following what i have for the last 5years i know all to well how our figures are massaged to suite.
anyhoo, here's Jim Rodgers of the quantum fund.

 

If they stop building cars here and take their factories back to the EU then we will be worse off.
Since Nissan, Bentley, Rolls Royce, BMW are all EU owned then that is a strong possibility. BMW have already said what they will do with the next gen Mini if there are tariffs.

And JLR, Toyota, Honda are not British owned either and we already know the Japanese feelings on Brexit. JLR will be no different. Its all about money and their shareholders to them.

There ...had my bit of fun.

 

The UK exports are financial and other services and its the largest part of our economy. I work in the City and you hardly meet anyone who thinks leaving the EU is a good idea. Mostly because of passporting rights to sell financial products across the EU markets. Theres near zero chance we will have as good access into the EU market after we leave and this is our biggest export market; twice the size of our next biggest market.

The only politicians that think leaving the EU is a good idea are the ones doing the power playing. Contrary to popular belief politicians do actually have half a clue about how to run a country since that is what they do for a day job and the ones who specialise in the economy all agree it is a bad idea to leave the EU, and most of the ones who dont specialise think the same but respect that they have to act on the 'will of the people'.

There's always going to be propaganda and bias but when a movement argues that we are 'sick of all these experts facts and figures' it should be a slight warning bell in any sane persons mind!

Yes there's a majority vote to leaving due to multitude of factors but there's zero evidence that its actually a good idea economically. It might all be speculation and guess work and may all turn out fine but the people who actually work in these areas overwhelmingly think it's a bad idea.