I don't envy the eu trying to find the black hole, there will be so much shenanigans from the remaining 27 and then trying to bring them together through the commission that it will make the brexit agreement look like a cakewalk. It is an attempt deliberately to confuse readers to mention impressively large figures with lots of noughts on the end whilst carefully avoiding any mention of the small percentages those figures actually amount to. I feel it's quite the reverse Pete, you say hey you owe us 11 billion a year, you take notice, if you try and lessen it by saying it's only 0.08% then your trying to pull the old "don't worry about it, it's small potatoes" that is used by those who prefer percentages to use the argument both ways depending what mood they are in. We will be out soon so the eu budget will no longer be our issue but from the feedback so far when other countries have had the question put to them, how will they fill the 13 billion euro shortfall? they seem to not feel as you feel, that the 0.08% is small potatoes Late edit, as you like percentages Pete, yesterday at the same meeting on budgets after brexit, the Lithuanian leader describes the shortfall after Brexit and us leaving will leave the eu with a 20% gap and not the 0.08%. what's your feeling on her claim?
I can't see how? Even the eu has said you must accept all 4 pillars of the eu or none at all. Even labour are only proposing one and even then it is not the one the eu want but something to run parralell which is what May is already proposing, hardly ground breaking. Bearing in mind it was being proposed Corbyns big speech on Monday, Starmer pops up on a Sunday allegedly giving a head start. Starmer is posturing and little more. They still have to say how they will achieve it and I doubt Corbyn will give anything other than platitudes and vague answers. I'll tell you why they are doing this and now, even more so as they are not in government and cannot stop brexit. In 9 weeks there will be the local council elections in England, Labour are looking to take every borough in London as Labour and momentum are largely a London movement and little more. It will be interesting to see what Corbyn offers tomorrow and whether he actually has answers and duke, if you honestly think the tory rebels won't fold if it is a choice between a tory government or a Labour one, then you are deluding yourself.
With council elections coming up in London, Labour will be out to do everything to increase their already dominant position in the vastly 'Remain' supporting capital and to paint this as the end of the Conservative party, calling for a G.E. blah, blah, blah. If they have to give some cynical statement with some vagueness around remaining in the EU or Custom's Union or Single Market, they unashamedly will. Corbyn has consistently been anti EU throughout his career, but such is his hatred of The Conservatives, he'll drop any of his beliefs and principles to get to power. Remember how they duped students, pre election with the "Deal with Student Debt" comment, which was widely accepted as cancelling it and not refuted by anybody in the Labour party, pre election. Conveniently, it was only after the election the it was described as "An aspiration" It's all about defeating the Conservatives and anything is fair game. They are playing a very dangerous game to appease the capital and gain headlines though. Throughout the country, vast swaithes of traditionally Labour supporting areas voted to leave, and if anything, the resolve has hardened. Labour agreed to stand by the result of the referendum, their manifesto did the same. Let's see how this goes down at the next G.E.
We've seen with their "costings" on their manifesto they included very little and what was costed was the same money spent at least 12 times over. Much of the promises since then such as nationalisation, have had not a single costing at all and have had them trying like mad to avoid giving a costing. I read starmers interview from the morning and to understand it you have to remember the 350 million on the bus. Labour learned from that and in the interview this morning he used that strategy. He never says stay in "the" customs union but says "a" customs union. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ing-in-eu-customs-union-keir-starmer-confirms I agree it's about defeating the tories but a defeat when? the election has been run and won't run again till 2022. Will there be another brexit vote? nope, how can you have a vote before you have even enacted the first one so just what are they offering? To be honest, nothing. For Corbyn and McDonnell it is not about a better U.K., their promises have shown that, it is about defeating the tories no matter what the cost is to the country. Corbyn has already warned the media do it our way or you will be in trouble, McDonnell went to Davos and told big business, do it our way or there will be trouble and Corbyn has turned his back on traditional labour supporters in favour of a non elected political movement based all in London. I suspect tomorrow it will be little more than the usual "a" customs union and not "the" customs union which is what May has already put to the eu so it will be like the abolition of student loans, a soundbyte and nothing more.
Why would it benefit us at all to remain tied to the EU customs union and unable to negotiate any further trade deals of our own? Unless the 'rules' have changed I was under the impression that was the case if we stayed within it.
In reality, a bit like Cameron offering a vote on Brexit then? Because that was all about keeping the Conservative party in power. Just didnt work out as he expected though. Now that the vote has been cast, this is a defining moment in time for the UK and they are all playing games. Conservatives are split. Labour party a mess. Ultimately as ever it will be Joe Public that will suffer the aftermath of this lack of direction and chaos. If we do not maintain freedom of movement and soft borders then things will be a huge mess. Northern Ireland alone is a good enough reason to not change things. To think that the NI could survive hard borders without a return to previous troubles is nothing more than naive. Looking at the v4 group in Europe it would seem as though the EU will be forced to soften its stance on many issues. This was already starting to happen though, with a different outlook already in relation to immigration and controls. No doubt that the UK decision to leave is an influencing factor. Shame that EU economy growth is outstripping UK growth though and also that we could not gain strength (and support) of the v4 countries to steer the EU from within. Also, all the hatred of Barnier, Junker, Tusk...and our choice of leaders is a weakened May and a worrying Corbyn. Very concerning to be honest that in this momentous moment in history we are represented by some of the weakest politicians in recent times.
If we have weak leaders, it is because none of the current crop of UK politicians ever felt they would be in a position to lead the Country. Follow the script supplied by Brussels? Yes. Lead? Not so much. It's been an unpleasant awakening for some ... or did you forget, most politicians were in favour of remaining in the EU? All the trappings of power with none of the responsibilities, being a member of the EU was Easy St for the UK's career politicians. The unthinkable then happened, some sheeple turn out to have no sheep DNA in their make-up after all. So now we are in a fundamental adjustment period of a process none of our "leaders" seriously believed possible.
Well yes, currently it is. But once again as far as I'm aware, I've never once heard anyone suggest that we cut ties with the EU and that trade shouldn't continue. It makes zero sense to anyone, remain or leave voter, to remain in THE existing customs union, because by doing so we'll not be able to attempt new trade deals. Those deals are what will make or break the whole thing. They'll either work out well, or give pro eu people something more to support their existing stance and gloat about in a 'I told you so' way Remaining in the existing customs union hand ties us and yet the remain voters still won't get what they want as we'll still have no sway in the direction of the EU. Interestingly I hear corbyn is saying 'a customs union' not 'THE customs union' And so I'm struggling to understand the difference between what he's apparently going to say vs what TM is trying to achieve. Unless it's THE customs union then the EU will simply reject it, but the real kicker is that they won't say that or reference it because Corbyn isn't in power or negotiating, so they don't even have to shoot it down as unworkable. It's just a stupid thing to say unless you can back it up with cast iron gaurantees the EU will consider the proposal favourable. Smoke and mirrors
When we do trade deals with other Nations, they will want something in return that they don't have now. India already said they want their people to have easy access to coming to the UK. Its likely all other Nations will want the same and then we are back to square one but even worse. Then you say Corbyn is wanting similar to May and in the next sentence say 'its a stupid thing to say'. So May is also talking bollocks then? There isn't an answer to Brexit that works in favour of the majority of people in the UK. The whole thing was funded by tax avoiders who want Britain to do the same for them, knowing that the EU is cutting down on it.
No, I'm saying it's a stupid thing to say in the regards to selling the nation something it's not. Correct me by all means, but my understanding is that TM has said that they'll be looking for agreeing a customs union of sorts but it won't be the current eu version? And yet Corbyn is apparently going to say that same thing but once again in a different way, that's a new idea is it? And if he doesn't say the same thing, and indeed he commits to the exact same customs union we're in, reference back to my comment earlier...what's the point?
Possibly but more so I feel that it was like the Scottish independence vote, one of those votes that hadn't been for ages so made sense to get it done once and for all as it was always going on in the background and the more the eu become centralised and we were paying more and more as the second largest contributor, we seemed to be getting less and less from it. Again however as I keep saying, if all you see it as us versus the eu then you really are missing some of the key points I have to be directly blunt here, anyone implying in any form that brexit will cause a return to terrorism in Northern Ireland is plain scaremongering and lying. Northern Ireland is a pawn being used by the eu and they know this will not return back to the bad old days as does anyone with sense When Cameron went to them and said, our people now have a democratic vote infront of them, give me something to show the eu project is a worthy one, they gave him feck all. there stance in the negotiations has seen even some remainers start to look at the eu themselves in a less luvvey duvvey way. A lot of the smaller countries relied on the U.K. to block things like a central budgetary body that could reach into individual countries budgetary controls, the eu army etc and all the time leaving the U.K. to largely carry the load, after a while the U.K. said, this balance is not a fair one, sort it out or we are off, they never sorted it out. Tusk not so much but definately Junker whose arrogance is part of the reason the eu is struggling and in a few weeks the italian elections like so many of late, will probably return a less than favourable government to the eu. I would agree our own leaders are not our finest, in any party. The worry at the time and continues I suspect from most brexiteers was surprise we won, then the fear our own politicians would sell out democracy from under us
The notion that everyone else will give Britain what it wanst without asking for something substantial in return is laughable and not how negotiation works. the idea we will be better off from Brexit just doesn't add up.
Who has said we will get everything we want, in negotiation you aim high expecting to not get everything, no one expects to get everything, if you personally did duke, stay away from negotiations. As he's speaking, he's just repeating the general election speech with little on brexit at all other than as predicted, A customs union. O dear, the man's hype could backfire
both main parties promised a referendum that millions of voters have been asking for for decades. Except that Labour didn’t deliver it in the past,and voters believed the Torys when they said they would hold it. It was obviously an Election winning strategy because the Torys are in Government. Corbyn and the dreadful elitist Starmer etc have reneged on their manifesto promise to abide by the result,and its only their unprincipled backtracking that has fanned the hopes of Remainers and the EU mandarins.Labour,with a few Tory turncoats,are entirely responsible for the unhappiness of Remainers and the divisions among the electorate.A clear and unambiguous statement that they would uphold the democratic vote and support the democratically elected government would have ended this nonsense,instead they have displayed their contempt for the democratic process,the people,and for the future of the country.
