You can’t have it all ways matey. It’s either free market, low taxes, free healthcare or it’s more tax, subsidised healthcare and great pension.
That rather is one sided as it doesn't discuss how much each countries employees contribute toward their government pension but it highlights like our nhs, you want better like other countries, you have to put in more. This is another oecd link and interestingly if you click on the financial sustainability tab, you can click on individual countries to place on the graph to see how much they put into the pot, we traditionally have always put low into them because we don't want to be taxed more. Just click the country block and it adds the country to the chart, hover over anyline and it gives all the countries on the lists gdp contribution Netherlands puts in 6.3% of gdp into old age related benefits Norway 5.5% Germany 10.8% France 11.4% and the U.K. 4.5% https://www.compareyourcountry.org/pensions?cr=oecd&lg=en&page=1&visited=1 However, they also have some very tight restrictions on who can actually claim a full pension
You forgot the third option: Keep inviting people into the country who are so short of skills that they cannot get a job when they get here and live on benefits,(taxpayers money) Keep inviting people into the country who will accept unskilled work at lower rates than the indigenous people can afford to accept,driving down the wages and then sending the money to their home countries.(Not forgetting to send child benefits abroad even though their kids never enter this country). Of course all those new faces will need healthcare,(taxpayers money),homes,(taxpayers money),education,(taxpayers money). Give vast amounts of UK taxpayers cash away in Foreign aid,to countries such as China,India etc etc. Pay the EU a massive membership fee,(taxpayers money),in order for them to maintain a massive trade imbalance,put tariffs on imported goods so that UK citizens pay prices far higher than they would have if we imported directly from the producing country.(Naturally Japan has just signed a trade deal with the EU which has no such membership fee attached). Of course all of the above depends on politicians being in power whose lofty ideals do not include giving a fuck for the poor bloody peasants who make up the majority of voters in this country,and for whom manufacturing is a dirty word...(and hence our faux-representatives made no protest when EU grants persuaded manufacturers to take hundreds of thousands of real money-making,export-producing jobs to other EU and non-EU countries). I shall of course have all this in mind when I drive down to Felixstowe twice this week in my Swedish truck,(because over the last thirty years British truck manufacturing has disappeared), to pick up my brand new German trailers,(because there are so few British trailer manufacturers left the waiting list is endless),and put another £60 grand in the pockets of Herr Krones family,(who own several factories in Germany,churning out thousands of trailer a week). But yeah I see your point....I just don't agree with it. Sorry.
Brits won’t work farms. Brits won’t clean toilets. Brits won’t clean hotel rooms. Brits won’t wait on tables. Brits will find a way to spend a life on benefits. Brits will exploit the system. Brits will moan about this immigrants taking our jobs. State of low skilled U.K. 2018.and it’s embarrasing.
Who told you all that Bradders? Have you been around the country interviewing working class people,or is that what the media has been saying? I'll give you an example,(and fyi my folks used to envy those who lived in council houses,because they had some security of tenure unlike the tied cottages where most farm workers lived) Lets say that working on a farm used to pay reasonable money,(and I know it did,because I grew up working on someone else's farm). But then,(as they do),Tescos etc started demanding cheaper prices from the suppliers,otherwise they would go elsewhere. Fortunately a supply of cheaper labour arrives enabling the farmer to produce cheaper and hence meet Tescos demand for lower prices. What happens to the guys and gals that used to work on the farm? I agree with you-the welfare system enables people who don't want to work to avoid work,but that lack of ethic is not limited to Brits...come down my manor and I'll show you an encampment of East Europeans currently under canvas in a wood located between the carriageways of the AI just south of Buckden.. Those guys spend their time in the UK quietly getting sozzled on someone else's dime,not working,and occasionally causing a bit of low-level aggro in the local towns. The papers didn't tell me this,I see it with my own eyes. I've just taken the missus out for her birthday for a Turkish meal-three of the four staff waiting tables were English,yesterday at the carvery for Sunday lunch everyone behind the bar and waiting table was English,the only Foreign voice I heard was the chef. And this morning I took a visiting driver to a cafe for breakfast where the waitress was a young local English girl.(A very sweet and somewhat flirtatious young lady actually). If welfare pays more than the low wages a Brit can afford to live on,but those low wages are enough for Eastern Europeans to live in shared accommodation and send their money home,then the welfare system and immigration is to blame. I have some experience of drivers from abroad,they are here to milk the system and are not ashamed to say so.Not one has had any intention of settling here permanently,it's all about how much better the money and the system is here,and what it can buy back home. If you watch Channel 4 and the BBC you'll see the worst they can find,designed to portray the British working class in the worst possible light,and hence justify their mantra of unlimited immigration being good for the country blahblahfuckingblah. But there are millions of people out there doing shit jobs at shit money that never get a mention,get no respect,that no one gives two hoots about and who are fucked right off with people making sweeping statements like the ones you have just made about them. Hardly surprising then that those forgotten and ignored people are getting really pissed off that no one cared about them when this shit started,no one thought about them when they started losing their opportunity to move up in the world,and no ones listening to them now they are stuck at the bottom with no chance of achieving anything. They are not racist,but the majority just want a fair chance at a reasonable job at a reasonable wage and to hear just a little bit less about how everyone else is better than they are. Believe what you want to believe mate,it's not the reality that the majority of the working class endure but you are still entitled to your own opinion.
Or you could just do what a friend did the other day. Was fuming at being made to wait for a Doctors appointment for 35 minutes over the waiting time. So when the culprit left the surgery, they followed him with his walking sticks apparently in agony as he left the building. Only for him to turn the corner and put the sticks under his arm and walk normally to his car.
It’s a combination of ‘reality’ tv, a sense of ‘entitlement’ by much of society, selfishness that has only increased over the last 30 years, lack of work ethic, and most importantly ‘you can be anything, don’t settle for less’ and constant ‘what are you doing over and above’ HR bollocks. The time when being a shoe packer, for life, was acceptable is long gone. Some seem to forget that rurnining up every day, doing a good job, going home is exactly what most people want. Add to that the govt insistence of education for all, even those it does t suit, after 16, lack of appetite by companies to employ teenagers when they can get adults for the same money who turn up and get on with it. And I’m saying this as a working class guy, from council estate, single parent having been passed around the family when young rather than go into care. Which my sister ended up in. My mum has barely worked a day 2 uncles between them have worked about 15 years in a lifetime (both close to ‘retirement age) My brother has never worked My sister has rarely worked, preferring babies, drugs and stuff like that (when younger cleaned up now) It’s not all people, but it’s enough and been growing. It’s a sorry state of affairs. Tbh I really hope that with Brexit and the less-skilled jobs becoming more available, the youth who say they can’t get work do take maximum advantage.
Plus if you pay more to the staff, you have more cost, you want to make same margins, prices go up. Whichever way you look at it, either via the till or taxes, it needs paying for fella. No magic money tree here
I've waited nearly an hour past my appointment time before in a surgery with more admin staff than patients. I've no idea why.
I don't disagree with any of that,but it doesn't apply to the majority. The vast,(and I mean vast),amount of necessary work that goes on in this country is done by the British working class...when you buy something,domestically made or imported,many unskilled and semi-skilled hands will have been involved in getting it from where it is produced to where you bought it. Even in the logistics part of the chain,crane drivers at ports,truck drivers,port admin staff,truck drivers,container stuffers,warehouse workers,fork lift drivers,van drivers and postmen...that goes for every single sea container shipped in from Anywhere,taken across the country and destuffed into somewhere...people think Amazon is somehow hi-tech and computerised,but it's just a shop window: somebody still has to make sure your shit gets to you somehow. And to run those trucks,you need fuel distributed and sold to you by bored working class people in garages,you buy food from shops stocked by the hour by shop workers,the list goes on ...and on...and on. Sure you can buy a book for your e-reader or get a programme via email,but tell me what one of them tastes like when you get hungry... The media and government have airbrushed the working class out of the picture unless they can be shown as idle,unintelligible or dumb enough to advertise their stupidity for the camera.They'll do 500 street interviews of Brexit voters and screen the three or four that make the middle class chuckle and sneer,ignoring those that work all night,(as do some of mine),trucking and sorting their ebay shit and foreign made car parts that are a fiver cheaper than can be made here. Instead of trying to help those at the bottom,all we see on screen is a procession of po-faced public sector employees on fantastic,(compared to the average),salaries and pensions,wealthy sportsmen,(many of whom have enjoyed fantastic taxpayer funded training facilities and financial support in order to become multi-millionaires),politicians,(taxpayer funded),and dubious ,"celebrity".No one else exists in the media. The strange thing is this.The people who we call on in an,"emergency",earn far more than the people we rely on every day..train drivers earn a fortune for going where the train takes them,but truck drivers earn fuck all for having to find their way,put up with shit from the public,and sleep in a space the size of two stacked coffins at the side of the A1 with nowhere to take a piss. Working class opportunities like nursing and joining the police have been deliberately snatched away by the middle-class requirement for University education,but the new breed of public sector are then constantly wailing that they don't get enough of the money extracted from working class pockets? plus looking down their noses and insisting their employers,(US ffs),quit smoking and stop going to A & E because WE can't afford to pay for more overpaid NHS staff.Or perhaps to make their lives easier?. A good number of those many millions who do go to work,put the hours in,break their backs,making all of our lives possible,are seething with resentment . Stupidity among the working class may well exist,(as it does in every other class),but most working class people are not daft. The comfortable life that their parents grafted for is not available to them: the taxpayers money that once provided opportunity and public services has been shared between too many people who have not contributed,social housing is given to those who have not waited patiently for years on the council lists,jobs once open to them have been exported overseas,or do not pay enough to make a life HERE because folks from over THERE consider them good enough to save and go back home to make their lives. No one should be surprised by the vote to leave the EU,(or for Donald Trump to become the President in the USA). If some were surprised it's because they have become so removed from the majority,that they convinced themselves that their prosperous,air-conditioned little existences of home ownership,35 hour weeks and kids on gap years from Uni was shared by the majority. Well,it isn't...and anyone who thought it was and that those millions would stay quiet and suck it up were,and still are,mistaken. They may not be able to afford a day off work to demonstrate outside parliament and show their anger,but that doesn't meant they ain't angry.
Worth watching if you can spare the time and have an interest: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2167963746813323
The flaw in the first part of your argument is that if that was such a big problem the authorities could ask those unemployed migrants who are only claiming benefits to leave. The government has chosen not to. So your issue is not with the EU on that point but the U.K. governments refusal to apply the rules.
It is a problem on two counts, working migrants on low wages by british companies/foreign agencies, were able to pump the wage up via working tax credits and often some of our benefits cash made its way to other countries, funding houses, university education etc. I don't blame the migrants for this, they see what many Brits refuse to see in that the U.K is a great place to offer a step up for many europeans. On the benefits side the system does need looking at but suspect they will but not until an agreement or wto/free trade has been selected.
Who wants to give up the increase in the value of their house fuelled by increased demand in housing due to immigration?
That's the dumbest argument I've heard yet in support of mass immigration, and there's some dumb ones to choose from.
Oh look, it's Schrodinger's Immigrant; the one that claims all the benefits while simultaneously taking all the jobs! So which one is it? Do they take the benefits, or do they take the jobs, because they can't take both...
It’s not an argument for mass immigration. I am sure you will be happy to accept this retort - that’s the dumbest interpretation of that point I could ever have imagined. It’s a consequence of immigration and the governments of the day, failing to plan.
They don’t, hyperbole nonsense. But they could. It’s not the same as being dead or not...although o found the reference funny
