But only a fool would think that you are going to please everyone in this situation. Forget the remainers....the decision has been made, they should focus on getting a great deal, as should the leavers. Brexiteers also need to get real....even if we left with a notional "no deal" we would sell goods using WTO rules (not as good as now) , but still have to produce goods that comply to the EU standard to sell them there....we just rename it as a BS I thought chequers sorted the Irish border question? Seems like a lot of posturing, positioning and pure politics happening, none of it for the good of the people, when they should all support one plan. The EU must be laughing watching what's going on here? It's a comedy
Export goods are made to suit the regulations in ALL overseas markets-nothing that I have read is complaining about that.And the same goes for goods imported here. Exiting the European Union is a relatively easy process that required nothing more than a pragmatic and practical attitude from both sides to change the paperwork. Unfortunately whenever you involve people who suckle at the taxpayers teat,pragmatism and practicality go out of the window.Too many egos,too much personal empire building,too many people puffing their chests out to make themselves look important. Had Article 50 been declared the day after the Referendum and principled people been involved in the withdrawal,it would have been done and dusted by now. There is no need to,"get real",as you put it,as all of the regulations,rules,limits etc already exist. Many countries outside the EU trade very successfully with the Union,using WTO rules or bilateral trade agreements.Those countries do not accept the four freedoms,nor do they pay to trade with the EU.They are also free to negotiate trade deals without going through a third party. Those who voted to leave want to be one of,"those",countries. EU politicians are not laughing; they are 50% of the problem,and they are terrified of losing the HUGE subsidy British taxpayers pay to have their own industries undercut,(and in some ways destroyed),by EU decisions made for the benefit of other countries. Chequers is an underhand and cynical attempt to keep the UK inside the European Union,for the Germans to keep their huge positive trade surplus with the rest of the EU,for British taxpayers to subsidise EU pensioners while their own OAPs get one of the lowest pensions in the Union, for British wages to be suppressed by the import of cheap Eastern European labour,for British welfare payments to flow abroad to pay for families that don't even live here,or for British taxpayers to pay the thousands of tariffs the EU adds to imports in order to protect German coffee roasters and for fields to stay uncultivated. The fact that the media and Remainers are grudgingly accepting Chequers tell us everything we need to know.
See that's the trouble. Too many people in the UK have been led to believe the eu wants our money. But while it helps that we pay in more the extra it's not actually a lot in terms of gdp. But yes eu politicians are terrified of something. They don't want the eu to break up. They recall why it was created. They see it as a economic counterweight to China and America. They would rather lose our trade and our subsidy than give us a deal so good other countries are tempted to leave. I live here now so I get to read their papers as well as our own. Our papers don't give the whole story very often. They said from the start we wouldn't get what we wanted. They told us why. We were native enough to think they would change their minds. They won't. They can't. Our money and our trade is less important than keeping the eu strong. On our side politicians have been unprincipled and empire building. On the eu side, on this issue at least, they have ALL stuck to the party line. If we leave they will protect the EU above all else. And before anyone points the finger at that statement... We are trying to put our interests first so let's not get annoyed or surpised that the EU puts its interests first.
I suggest you take a look back in history and read about the planning and formation of the EU. What you read in the newspapers is somebody's opinion,and no more valid than the opinion of anyone else.And if that is where you get your information from,I'm afraid you are not going to see the big picture. We want out from under their jackboot,we are not asking for anything from the EU. The whole access to market nonsense is another myth designed to scare the timid,trade has gone on since time began,despite the many impediments authority likes to put in it's way. Have you not noticed the tide of populism sweeping across Europe? This is the direct result of the EU,Merkel,and the bizarre decisions that negatively affect the people that elected them. If you don't think that money is what makes the world go around,I suggest you go to a few big German exporters and ask their opinion.funny how everyone thinks we should care about access to markets but the EU don't have to...typically blinkered,anti-UK thinking I'm afraid. Brexit,(if it ever happens in the form expected),will be very good for the UK,MAYBE not so good for the EU but hey,they are big enough to weather the blip so apart from the 45,000+ EU burdens on the taxpayer,I doubt anyone will really notice. We have learned from 40+ years of EU membership and are looking to the future,not just to the now.
The EU? Yeah you can say that's their problem. That fair enough. But the Irish? You should care about their view. Remember the troubles? It's not ancient history and it can flare up again.
Respectfully disagree. A lot of your statement is based on a capitalist view. But the EU is above all else a political and social construct. British and American forms of capitalism forget that not every country puts it as their highest driver. To be transparent I'm a traditional tory voter. I'm no socialist. just reminding people that how we think does not entirely reflect how other societies think. As for the rising tide of populism. It's happening also in Russia America Australia etc. They can't blame the EU for it. In my view Its caused by the rise in inequality. that's the common thread.
I think it's caused by a lack of representation. The globalists presumption is that politics has been "done". The right and proper way to do things have been established and there is no need to discuss matters further. Where there is descent it is assumed that there has been a failure of communication, not a failure of policy. Populations feel taken for granted and ignored. Politics in too many countries and certainly at a supranational level is no longer about representing electorates and acting on their concerns, it's become an exercise in marketing pre-formed solutions to problems drawn from a shortlist which has been compiled and edited by the same establishment cabals who are doing the marketing. It's no wonder real people feel excluded and angry. They want politics that does things for them at their behest, not to them without mandate or consultation.
oh ffs. says the one thats helped to remove a layer accountability and democracy and believes in smaller government. sooner or later the only replay the uk gov will have to a disgruntled population will be, Market forces. labour will trash the economy suck it up. goat, the patter on here gets worse by the day.
A layer of accountability? Are you seriously talking about the EU? The EU is anti-accountability. It's Parliament is a sham. It's members, who do not represent genuine constituencies but arbitrary regions in a super-country that doesn't exist, are purely rubber-stampers who have no power to enact, amend or repeal legislation. Their role is to provide some democratic window dressing to a profoundly anti-democratic institution. I've said countless times that I believe governance should be dispersed outwards and devolved downwards. At present it is centralised and top-down. The EU is the epitome of this malaise, not the antidote to it.
Why? Their problem. We don’t want a barrier, so unless they can negotiate something with the EU, its all down to them. How do they manage on the edges of the EU now? Are there strict border control posts between Switzerland and their borders? The Irish Republicans will look for any reason to demand ‘their Ireland’ be united and ‘returned’ to them. Sinn Fein must be rubbing their hands with glee. Let the EiRE govt sort it. And the EU and EIRE take on the cost too. BTW that was Eileen Fosters bevies tyhis morning on the radio too. I think she’d know some something about the politics there...
That does sound very much like the USSR model though. Gorbachev (if its true he said it) seems to have a point
yet the uk gov is, and always will be the barrier to it. they dont give up power. just pass the buck. lay blame for the UK's ill elsewhere. we have used the EU very effectively in many areas to do things differently up here, but with shared interests in mind. but in fairness yes, you have said this before re devolving power out. its jut that i dont believe it will happen. power devolved is power retained. as we have seen so many times of late up here.
No argument there.. It needs more accountability. It needs to devolve power more in most areas and pull back a few like banking and armed forces. In short like the USA... A decent army for wielding power... A banking system that doesn't fall apart under stress. And all other powers devolved. My opinion anyway. I just wish we fought to fix it from the inside.
Also.. Sorry to say but the UK government is God awful at internal devolution of power. You should see Switzerland... It's like the total opposite. Fully devolved powers to the Kantons. Tax powers. Housing rules. Even some Kantons ban the Burka while others don't. Yet a central government that is hugely effective on the world stage given the size of the country... Both Britain and the EU could learn from them.
It’s a good comparison really, and probably more like the state of affairs than USSR. EU is a super-state (or that was the plan) and countries become mererely territories (and I think are referred to as such too). And just like the States, national policy is set by the White House (Eu Parliament) and local states set the local laws and taxes, within the national framework. The big difference is that the White House leadership, and therefore direction of travel of national policy, is voiced in. The EU isn’t: its a simple dictatorship shared amongst the privaliaged few who desire the same unwavering power.
