I am finding this three quarters retirement difficult Once you enter into the agreement offered by the eu, there is no legal out for the U.K. You can only leave it if the eu allow it, and only if when you leave, you leave knowing the eu has started the ball rolling on putting the republic and n.i. together and to all effects, North Ireland will remain under the control of the eu in every facet of life. Yes, the eu will allow us as long as we are trapped in that agreement, to talk to other countries. However if we get a favourable deal with another non eu country that is a betetr deal than the eu has, the eu can stop that deal between two non eu countries. There isn't any. Look, the eu is a shark pool of self serving countries run by an even bigger shark pool called the eu commission. We were of course part of that shark pool but have decided the direction of the united states of europe is not a direction we wish to go in. As the second largest funder of the eu project but more the damage to their projects reputation, they will move heaven and earth to keep us trapped in it. I don't know if some will realise but this is just the leaving document, we haven't even started the future arrangement yet and already many of the eu fishing nations are insisting the eu get the same quotas for eu countries in British waters as they have now, let alone the other deals moving forward.
If the Republic of Ireland left the EU, that’s it’s sorted. That will never happen, they do as they’re told, can’t afford not to I suppose. I will credit the PM for supporting the Union and I will credit the DUP for supporting the Union. There isn’t a hope in hell that the DUP would support any threat to Northern Ireland and why would they. The PM knew this and to be fair, there are a lot of MP’s that support Northern Ireland being part of the UK. Let’s be honest, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland need England but as a Union, it’s stronger. This is a critical time in the history of the UK, when they need to stand as a Union. We have an agreement that no one accepts, blame everyone if it makes you feel better but if you believe in the democratic process, it was a vote to leave the EU. It was not a vote to leave with conditions or a vote for another referendum. The remain camp have done a lot of harm for whatever reason. If you don’t believe in democracy, what do you believe in?
I get your point entirely. And if you read my response to your post you'd see that nowhere do I claim that any country trades exclusively using WTO rules.That is what you thought you saw,but in actual fact my response was merely to illustrate how widespread the use of rules were. The thing is,you believe that WTO is some sort of bottom-of -the barrel-scraping set of trade rules,and I believe exactly the opposite. Like almost every country in the world,(as illustrated in the BBC graphic),most countries have trade deals with SOME countries and use WTO with others,a perfectly satisfactory situation that almost everyone jogs along with quite nicely. (I'll repeat: trade deals are not the be all and end all.YOU might want them to be,in exactly the same way that the EU WANTS to pretend that the Northern Ireland border is an issue,which it isn't,because there are many hundreds of miles of EU borders with non-EU countries where people and good cross almost without hindrance). The trade deal and border issues are no problem if both sides don't want them to be,but the EU see them ,(and Theresa May,Olly Robbins etc),as opportunities and excuses to deny the wish of 17.4 million UK voters to leave the EU and all it's institutions. So,the majority of countries use WTO rules at some point and with some countries. Well,I'm absolutely certain that trade deals already in place,(whether agreed between the EU or the UK and a third country),can be replicated at the stroke of a pen,as can virtually every other agreement.Again dependent on both sides,but right now,the EU is prepared to cut off it's exporters noses to spit the UK using any means necessary....shame you've been suckered into believing their bullshit,but not everyone has.In fact if you believe SOME polls,then over 85% of UK voters now want to leave the EU without a deal.(Other polls are available from discredited (lol) sources that claim the opposite) Horrific conditions upon withdrawal eh? If you can see into the future,then let us all know next weeks winning lottery numbers please. "Horrific conditions", only exist in those peoples heads that don't want us to leave the EU. You don't know,I don't know,no one knows what will happen when/if Brexit ever happens...but I can promise you it won't be horrific.All those Spanish oranges currently in trucks en-route to UK shops still need to go SOMEWHERE,as do the car parts made in Germany,the French wine,the cheese/you name it,and the brand-new German trailers I might buy next year if my firm continues to be as successful as it has been. If and when German/French/Polish etc workers see their livelihoods threatened by Brussels intransigence,there will be a few slaps handed out and they won't be coming our way.Politicians on both sides do not dwell in the real world,but they will...maybe there will be some richly deserved lynchings when they are forced to confront it. Trade between nations,travel between continents etc etc existed long before the bureaucratic obstacle called the European Union or the Common Market existed.And the EU sell us far more than we sell them,please try to remember that. Finally: If Scotland want to leave the United Kingdom that is up to the Scots,but the reality is that their vehicles and people will have to go through the same checks at the English border as those that the EU imply they will impose on us after we leave,and the same goes for Northern Ireland.The SNP are trying to talk P &O into running a ferry from Scotland to Norway...bit of a bugger when they want to go to Lyon or Barcelona eh? To be honest,you really didn't need to say anything after,(and I paraphrase because i can't be arsed to look back and check),"I find the idea of crashing out using without a deal horrifying",or whatever. Searching for reasons to explain why you have taken that position isn't necessary,nothing is going to scare those of us who were aware of the potential risks when we voted out.
Hi Noobie, FYI the relevant extracts from the document are: p.314 Article 7 of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland 3. Nothing in this Protocol shall prevent a product originating from Northern Ireland from being presented as originating from the United Kingdom when placed on the market in Great Britain. i.e. a producer in NI can simply state they are in UK if they wish if the goods are being sold in the UK. p.314 Article 7 of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland 2. Where provisions of Union law made applicable by this Protocol provide for the indication of a Member State, including in abbreviated form, as markings, labelling, tags, or by any other means, the United Kingdom in respect of Northern Ireland shall be indicated as "UK(NI)" or "United Kingdom (Northern Ireland)". Where provisions of Union law made applicable by this Protocol provide for the indication in the form of a numeric code, the United Kingdom in respect of Northern Ireland shall be indicated with a distinguishable numeric code. This clause is referring to the fact under EU law (and UK law) the country of origin for products of animal origin must declared. This is for traceability and food safety/anti-fraud measures. Take a look at some meat or cheese in your fridge. On the packet it will either, or both, state the country of origin in words or there will be an oval mark in which will be a code e.g. UK 1234 EC. This code is the ID of the plant where the goods were produced. The code is comprised of the member country (UK), the UID (1234) and the fact it's in the EC (EC). At present products such as these from NI carry a code UK XXXX EC. The draft agreement is stating those goods that require a code by existing law, and only those, i.e. products of animal origin, must carry the country code UK(NI) rather than just UK where they are to be sold within the EU outside of the UK. The agreement does not insist that anything, or all goods, need to be marked UKNI just specific ones. Is this the thin edge of the wedge? Is this an indication the EU wants to split NI from GB? Who knows? Where I would be concerned with regard to this specific clause is when does it come into effect from? 29th march 2019? Food manufacturers have tens if not hundreds of thousands of £££ tied up in printed labels and packaging, are they expected to just dump it all and order new stuff? Also, perhaps Scotland might like to use 'UK Scot' for their Highland Cattle and Haggis. Perhaps Wales would like to use 'UK CY' for their lamb.
I haven't yet found in the document where it says the UK can only leave when/if the EU allow? But then I'm still looking. p.204 Article 129 4. Notwithstanding paragraph 3, during the transition period, the United Kingdom may negotiate, sign and ratify international agreements entered into in its own capacity in the areas of exclusive competence of the Union, provided those agreements do not enter into force or apply during the transition period, unless so authorised by the Union. I don't see anywhere where the EU can stop the UK and AN Other Non-EU country agreeing a deal that may be better than that which the EU has already agreed with AN Other Non-EU country. Certainly the UK can't agree a deal with any EU member alone, it has to be the EU and all members, but the UK can agree a deal with any non-EU country. I don't see how the EU can stop a deal between tow non-EU countries. Should that deal be better than that which the EU has negotiated then I'm sure the EU will jump on it and say 'hey Dude, how come you gave them Brits such a good deal? I want some.' As the second largest funder of the eu project but more the damage to their projects reputation, they will move heaven and earth to keep us trapped in it.[/QUOTE] Spot on. Yep, it's going to be fun 21 months.
Read this earlier. Interesting article and backs up what’s clear listening to the negheads on here: no pride nor confidence in UK PLC Former Australian PM Tony Abbott... "It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny. Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get. The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence. But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy? A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe. Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are. Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers. Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain. Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership. Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere). UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum. As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it." Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015 Source: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/tony-abbott-how-to-save-brexit/
I can’t understand a word he’s saying. Do you have subtitles? Fortunately, my wife has been to Australia and has no desire to go back. Thankfully. As I have no desire to ever go there. It’s full of BBQ burning misogynistic males, non BBQ burning shemales called Shiela, poisonous snakes, spiders and other feckers that are going to jump out the toilet bowl and bite your arse. Saltwater crocodiles that’ll chomp your leg off, drag you under water and drown you and Great White Sharks that think you’re a seal and fecking eat you when you go in the sea. It’s no wonder a) Nature placed it so far from everywhere else that is civilised and b) we sent all the fecking criminals there. Obviously just IMO and not the opinion of the Ducati Forum or anyone else associated with it.
500+ pages condensed in to a 7 page pdf http://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpe...ontent/uploads/2018/11/Your-Right-to-Know.pdf Now you might not like JRM, hell you might even be a remain voter, but the points highlighted in the document show that this is nothing more than a stitch up.
And another thing, What in the actual fuck is any labour mp doing backing JC? I saw him on Sky news this morning prior to TM coming on. He had every chance to put his Brexit position forward, every chance to add some clarity and give his views on how he'd go about things. He is in the best possible position to gain some advantage on TM and frankly he fluffed it like he always does. When asked had he read the 500 page document he said some of it, but not all of it Clearly his preparation for a TV interview isn't what you'd call Stellar Honestly Jezza, I'm sorry mate but you're simply not cut out for this
They even make the Irish show passports form Ireland! I got my bike searched at Cherbourg. Before we were in the EU, I used to travel round Europe and nobody gave a fuck. The only time that I showed a passport was to get back in to England. Now after leaving the EU we will still have to show passports to get back in to Britain. I suppose that the only difference that I will notice is that there will be no planes flying - so I'm told!
Spot on. Yep, it's going to be fun 21 months. [/QUOTE] The eu already as you point out has a tracking system of which NI is part, there is no need to change that. Or is there according to the eu? No other individual part is being asked to now have a seperate region in regards to the customs arrangement. It is clear by, as you mention, non of the other 3 parts of England, Scotland or wales are being asked to have uk then specific. Not asking for it before brexit but asking for it after brexit clearly seeks to isolate northern ireland away from the U.K. and into the republic and the eu. Just had a thought, as a third country, Canada has a trade deal with the eu, do you know if the eu have asked Quebec to label differently?
Just as another update for what's going in in europe Switzerland is a country in EFTA, and them crazy Swiss love referendums. They are due to have 3 on one day on november the 25th and they are on Social welfare detectives Swiss versus international law and yes, Cow horns The second is interesting because the Swiss estimate that a third of their laws come from the eu and so within in this referendum is the "Swiss Law first" initiative. This means if a nation has laws but the eu laws seem to overule it, then do the Swiss want Swiss law to be the defining law and overule eu law? If they vote Swiss laws for Switzerland are the end state, that will bring them in direct confrontation with the eu and their efta membership. Bearing in mind the current situation with the eu commission and Poland trying to appoint it's own court senior judges, it will be interesting. Many Swiss see this as a right and that would then allow a re-establishing of a direct democracy for the people of a nation, by it's own nation. Anyway if reading other countries views for comparison to our current situation floats your boat, then the link with the three votes, even the cow horns https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/in-depth/vote-november-25--2018
