I'm wondering if by Boris not replying to Fins love letter, is that when he turned to the snp and Alex?
The referendum was never binding and could quite legitimately have been treated as an opinion poll. The result was close enough to have been deemed inconclusive. The Swiss had a supposedly binding referendum about severing its ties with the EU and the result favoured doing just that. However, the government decided it would be too damaging to their economy and ignored the vote. The main reason the Swiss voted as they did was free movement and the immigration that entailed. The Swiss government was clever and found other ways to limit free movement. We should be equally clever, stay in and use the EU to our advantage as the French do Every form of Brexit comes out as making us poorer ; the more extreme the Brexit, the poorer it will make us. As Clint said, "Don't get mad, get even".
It is entirely possible, you being you, that your confusion is down to you being wrong ... Ego Boy : o D
Ok, but they should have said that at the time. Maybe straight after the referendum they should have said ' Sorry that's too close for us to act on' I do think all the goings on since the referendum have finally proved to (probably) the whole country how bad politicians are.
The referendum was never binding and could quite legitimately have been treated as an opinion poll. This has been disproved so many times. On every bit of government (who were remain) material published and interviews on it, they said all the time before the vote, they will act on the wish of the vote Every form of Brexit comes out as making us poorer ; the more extreme the Brexit, the poorer it will make us. As Clint said, "Don't get mad, get even". Almost every time this has been claimed, it refers to the short term whilst we reset ourselves up to take on our own business so will require investment. Most using the "to be poorer" mantra like you to forget that short term cost will be just that, short term The other part on the cost/money, if that is all you see your freedoms as, then don't bother voting anymore and perhaps you can sell your voting rights on ebay?
could it be that norways busness representative politly told the uk to fuck off the other day if they have any intension of joining EFTA?. its all falling apart init?
It'll be tiresome to pick this all apart so I will just show you how none of what you have said here should be taken seriously - in fact, it's in your first line. Cameron, the PM at the time, said that the result of the Ref will be acted upon. This committed the Govt of the day to making Brexit happen. The Govt then changed when MayBot called a GE ... where the vast majority of MPs ran on a Brexit will be Brexit manifesto. Both Tory and Labour ran on the ticket that the UK is leaving the EU. There is no point in the sequence of events that the Govt has been let off the hook with regard to making Brexit happen. And while I'm here, line 2, two close to call? Rubbish. Democracy is a question of majorities who win the vote, get what they voted for. If you don't like that system, change it but in the meantime, it's what we do.
Could it be that there's SQUIRRELS! SQUIRRELS EVERYWHERE! Dude, put down that bottle of amphetamines : o D
For me to be persuaded, and people like me, I’d be grateful if you could, in the context of economic damage caused by varying forms for Brexit confirm (with reference to the terms used in your post I’ve quoted: •How do you define “short-term” ? • What are the financially quantifiable demonstrable costs? • what are the medium-term quantifiable demonstrablegains? • what are the long-term quantifiable demonstrable financial gains?
Given Cameron was not daft, and he made a statement that, if the vote went against him would destroy him and his party, is there a chance he knew leaving would be impossible? Did he deliberately make a false pledge knowing it couldn’t be delivered? Did he lie to those voting leave? I can’t think of many other pledges he kept that he thought would damage to his party.
Daft or not that sounds like 'play my way or I'm taking my ball home' Don't they all ? Didn't they all ? Don't they all ?
Maybe not but I think that was hubris, gung ho. He was pretty shrewd (with those around him). He stitched up: Blair Brown Clegg Milliband The Labour Party in the Independence vote (Labour had to go to the rescue in Scotland in a Japanese suicide flight there). Samond (in the 30 seconds after Cameron came out of No. 10) the day after Independence. Gove & Boris when he resigned. He was shrewd.
I get your point but you are arguing as though the election hasn't happened yet so much of that is a moot point but it does highlight, for some , democracy is about money and not about democracy There is no doubt europe is moving to a move central and eu running everything circus. The U.K. has simply said, we have never been at ease with this direction so are leaving before it gets silly. Something overlooked by those who keep going on above the financial cost, keep using 30 year predictions from people who didn't even see 2008 crash coming etc, if the eu was on the right direction, why are there so many people revolts in the eu countries where as in ours, the non eu centric, hardly non. The far right in the U.K. appears more in a headline than in reality, in europe, the love child of remainers, there is such a rise in the far right that even now in that beloved cabal, you have the far right in state and national governments that have not had them in since ww2. Europe and the eu are not listening and they now have historic rises in the far right. The U.K. listened and we have one of the lowest growths in the far right to a point of media obsession more than reality. No matter what the deal is when we leave, there will be a cost, but we are one of the largest economies, the idea that we will be penalised till the end of days is the stuff of nonsense, sometimes independence is more than just pennies an pounds. I appreciate JC you are looking for exact figures, there are non there from either side that can be counted on as accurate, they were rarely accurate when brexit wasn't even on the cards but it is a short term cost as we build our infrastructure to cope with our own needs and that short term cost for most leavers is one that long term, will see more than just a monitary benefit as a long term return. The only facts I can give to support that last bit is the economic history of the U.K. through facts and figures of the past, we always rebuild and always come out stronger. Those facts and figures can be proven
No evidence. Can I just point out you with as much respect as I can muster, you are using Terms in your answer that I’ve asked you to define to give me some confidence that what you say is correct. And you haven’t done it. And neither has anyone else. You have made no attempt to persuade me. I just have to believe your belief. Can you see why that’s a problem?
Mmm, yes. But now there’s deception with it. Blair started it to a certain extent, Cameron particularly and sadly Theresa May has followed it. Politics suffers because of it. John Major and Gordon Brown were pretty forthright. As is Corbyn. And they were / are hammered for it. It’s a shame.
Nope, Why should I seek to persuade you? I know why I voted and continue to feel why the decision to leave the eu was the right one. The last two years and the behaviour of the eu has re-enforced my feeling of a correct decision. I'm fortunate, I spend a lot of time looking at european media, eu dictacts etc so look not only at them versus us but also what is going on in europe. I don't need to persuade anyone, the vote has happened that choice has been made. Apart from being passionate about the choice I've made, everyone has to account for their own choice and own reasons for how they voted.
I referred specifically to the financial aspects of Brexit. I did so deliberately. Not Europe, not the dictats of Europe. I’ve no quarrel about your views on Europe (Having studied law for years, I think they are drastically wrong) but I’ve no quarrel with them. It’s the position on the finances I would like you to demonstrate.
