I'll let you all know how it turns out. According to the chap, there are quite a few racers wearing his leathers, including himself. I'll look at the quality of the product when it arrives. It is my opinion that this idea of quality and higher standards in premium gear is all a myth engendered by clever marketing and years of consumer pressure. Of course, there are products which are going to be made to a much higher standard than others and they are priced accordingly. (D-air anyone?) I don't think that there are many products which fit that description. The kind of leathers which I currently wear, and I'm assuming you would approve of PURELY because they were bought from a UK retail location, were also built to a price point. One lower than the set I'm going to have a look at. (I paid £300 for my Spyke one piece, it's not too great either.) The actual cost of the product, the materials used in it and the standard of workmanship (both calf zips failed on first fit and had to be replaced) appear to be lower than that of the leathers shown in the guys Facebook photos. CE marks don't mean that much when you can buy the approval and the standards are pretty low any way. I'm sure someone here specifically knows what criteria leads to CE approval but I'm also sure that shitty plastic fittings on my Spyke suit are not to the standard of those fitted to a top of the line alpine stars unit yet both have a CE mark. I think the truth of this is, if it looks like a cow, smells like a cow and says moo; it's a cow. The only way to taste the steak is to fall of at 130mph and see how they end up. And hopefully I will never find that out. I also don't know if my Spyke suit will hold up to 130mph of gravel rash but I assume it does because we all agree that it should. Because I bought it in the UK and it says Spyke on it. Obviously, I'm hoping that these turn out pretty well as they're pretty expensive and that you will all be amazed and impressed by the final product quality. I'll be the first to admit if they're crap and I'll do a very thorough review when they arrive. But I still stand by the idea that, regardless of the quality of this particular product, the safety of leather products you buy in the UK is a myth, with wide variation between products that reach the same standards and the authority that tells you they are safe is the company that wants you to buy them. They have a vested interest in making you believe their hype, so you will sell your 10 years old leathers and buy some shiny new ones despite them being fit for intended purpose and still fitting.
I think what we should really be discussing is not the fact that you want to buy a suit from the tinterweb that may fit/not fit. be well made/poorly made, use quality leather/ shite leather, you just dont know because you've not seen it (but he does have a photo of you to 'fine tune it from' (as all good taylors do). The thing here is that your after a set of replica leathers will you be wearing a 46 branded baseball cap when you take your helmet off at Loomies, just for that added autheticity? For sale, 1098 Xerox rep, good condition, reason for selling is I just cant get any Xerox leathers to go with it so I dont feel like a real racer...........
No idea whether or he eBay ones are good or not, but I had my race one-piece suit made by Harper's Leathers in Leigh-on-sea. They brand their own stuff with the Wolf logo as they used to own Wolf before selling it off. My made to measure suit cost me about 500 in 2007 and crashed real well. I would certainly recommend them.
" It's also true that the right logo can add far more to the price than the suit is actually worth - BKS springs to mind. But how can you tell without seeing/feeling the stuff in the flesh? The best leathers I've ever owned were made by Weise (British, despite the german-sounding name), the lining in my Dainese suit fell apart in short order, a pair of their gloves were just dire, and one of my longest-lasting jackets was made by Frank Thomas. I " Franks Thomas is now owned by BKS after they went into receivership. BKS consider Frank Thomas to be the cheap end of their market and are mostly for non made to measure items. They are linked into the J&S group.
There are plenty of reasons why expensive leathers are expensive, or cheap leathers are cheap if you prefer, but some of those reasons may be acceptable to you and some not. The main ones are the quality of the leather itself. It can vary in thickness depending on how the leather is manufactured (which means that not all leather is equal) and that leads to improved strength and wear resistance if the leather is thicker. The reason why a real "bike" leather jacket is five times the price of a "fashion" leather jacket off the market is mainly because the bike leather will be 1.5mm to 2mm thick whereas the fashion jacket will be very thin, usually around 0.5mm thick. Guess which one wears out first when sliding along the tarmac? The processing and treatment of the leather during manufacturing also reflects in the cost of the basic material used to create the item in the first place. You will also find that a lot of "bike" leathers will have been adjusted and adapted over years of feedback from testing, both on the bench and "real" testing on the track. This will lead to different designs in the way the leather is constructed to ensure, for example, reinforcements are placed where needed. Although a lot of suits look like they are an assembly of patches of leather sewn together, some may may multiple layers with additional pieces over the top to give added protection. Reinforcements will also be used and these can include exotic materials such as Kevlar™ which has a very high wear resistance when used correctly. It is so wear resistant that you need special scissors to cut the cloth! This stuff is not cheap because genuine Kevlar™ is a trademark (hence the ™ in there) and the owners of that trademark (DuPont) are making sure that they get their money's worth from it! Then there is the quality and type of stitching used to put it all together. There's no prizes for guessing that thinner thread has a lower breaking point, but it also means it is cheaper. Many manufacturers will use high strength stitching for seams and will also double-stitch in high-stress areas to ensure that seams do not split/burst and the leathers fall to pieces on contact with the tarmac. Finally you may also get some armour and/or padding in there as well. Oh, and maybe a nice liner. Space for a back protector maybe. Decent zips that won't burst? What about a couple of inside pockets? Another zip to hold it together with matching trousers? Oh, you also want stretchy panels so you can bend your legs? Somewhere to stick your sliders to? ... all of this stuff costs money to add but can easily be saved if they're not included or materials are scrimped on... For what it's worth there are no laws about testing leathers. What I mean by this is that I could sew a few bits of coloured leather together and market it as a "race" suit and you wouldn't be able to sue me for telling lies... However, should I want to add the recognised CE marking or other safety standards such as British Standards (the BS of the Kite Mark fame), then I would need to submit my products to testing by the relevant bodies before I am allowed to say that they offer "protection" (which is a word I cannot use in advertising without substantiating what protection standards it offers) and as such you must presume that I haven't offered my product for one of the following reasons: 1. I cannot afford to pay the test fees, 2. I'm not confident they will pass the test, 3. I don't believe the tests are worth the results. Some may scoff at the idea of testing, or of the testing that they do and may think they hold little value compared to "real world" use, but any testing is better than no testing, and I know which leathers I would wear if there were any chance of me sliding down the road. FWIW, anyone who says that decent leathers are expensive is talking rubbish. I bought a Dainese Ducati one-piece race suit which is fully CE certified (I just checked the label!) and cost me £225. Why? Because they were second hand. Yes they'd been worn but they had no marks on them and I'm not so up myself that I NEED to have brand-new leathers. I spent 5 years racing in these and slid up the tarmac many times (and got quite good at it!) and they did extremely well when I got punted off in qualifying at 90mph, was pinned under my bike and ridden over the top of as well. Those ones are now trashed but given the use I had out of them and how well they stood up to the abuse, I went and bought another set exactly the same and paid £250 second hand off ebay. There was an interesting program about leathers on the BBC the other day as well, in Fake Britain. I think the angle they were coming at was that these leathers were branded as "fakes" because they had the Yamaha logos on them. They tested them - they weren't great - and warned people about them. I think it was a bit over-hyped but it does show that unless you're buying something that has been tested, you really are gambling with the quality of the product you're getting. BBC iPlayer - Fake Britain: Series 5: Episode 3
All of my riding kit is what I consider decent. I have a made to measure Kushitani suit, 10 years old and cost me a small fortune. I've crashed in it more than once and all I've done is scuff the leather and rip some of the logo stiching on one thigh. Worth every penny. I also have an Alpinestar 2 piece suit, again not cheap, but off the peg. The fit isn't perfect, especially around the arse, but they seem decent enough, and they're made in Vietnam. I've not crashed in them, and whilst they don't have the quality of the Kushi stuff I'm assuming they'll do the job, but only because of the brand name. I have some Alpinestar GP Pro gloves and the fit is shit, they bunch up in the palm, and the thumb length is too short, not worth the money. I have a set of Rukka textiles, again, as you'd expect, they're well made and have never let a drop of water through in the last 3 years. Would I give the other leathers a go, for £500 I probably would, it's chezp enough to chance it. But I'd have a good look at them before I used them for more than just posing down the local cafe.
Even the most expensive are rarely more than 1.2-1.3mm think hide. For me its the stretch panels materiel and stitching and fit. My broken arm, as well as a hole in my knee twice and several times both elbows, is because my suit does not fit properly in arms and legs: they do t put the armour where it should be and/or when sliding spin and expose just leather or the stretch materiel I am checking out a set at the mo, exchanged some emails, for a £300 new set which they can make fit better, have 1.3mm hide, CE armour, triple stitching with the right stuff and stretch panels using the right materiel (note FT do NOT use the right stuff nor double stitch with the right yarn!) I'll be happy to test them
I wear Dainese only because they fit me well. Otherwise I would wear Furygan as that does too. Had I money I would get a MtM Kushitani like Nick. I had a set of their gloves and it was like wearing velvet. Alpinestars dont fit me that well. Size 46 Dainese is spot on for me. I have the VR46 jacket coz I is a fanboy too, but I wouldnt overdo it.
@antonye what you are saying makes perfect sense. What I am suggesting is that one could copy the suit that has been tested and, if using materials of a comparable nature, they would perform to the standard that the tested leathers do. I'm more than comfortable with the idea that they may be of inferior quality and may not protect as it claims. I am not trying to argue against this. What I am trying to argue for is that it would be possible to produce leathers of a high enough quality at a much lower price if you didn't pay for the branding and they were supplied by a company using similar manufacturing techniques and similar materials. Only time will tell if this set will be the same. I will be getting the thickness measured with some vernier callipers the minute they arrive.
There was bloke on the "old forum" who lived in Indonesia (IIRC), he used to get his made (copied) out there. He'd get his missus who had big fake tits to model them...:Kiss::Kiss: Both looked excellent quality...
It's not only the thickness but the quality, how it's been treated etc. As for price, there's no middleman to pay. I bet a third of the cost of any branded leathers is dealer profit, take that off a £750 Alpinestars suit and you're down to.....bugger.....£500....what's their email address again...
How can they refuse to pay out? Other than a helmet you are not required by law to wear any protective clothing...
I completely agree with you on this idea - in fact it's something that I've done myself but in other areas! I've taken things like footpegs, levers, etc and have drawn up the specifications and had new items made up around those dimensions, sometimes adding things like adjustable toe-pegs in to the standard items. However, I know that the parts I'm having made are from 6061 T6 (certified) aluminium billet and that we quality control all the items once they have been manufactured to ensure they fit and work correctly. We control the anodising process along with the colouring process to our own requirements so we get exactly what we specify. My tolerances may be different to someone like Rizoma, but as they don't publish their tolerance I have no idea of knowing what that is, so we may be better, or worse. I don't know. My point is that because you don't know the specification of the garment, you don't know if it will be better or worse. If it's not been tested to a standard (such as CE or BS) then looking at or feeling the garment won't tell you that either. Don't forget that "similar" has a different meaning to "same"... as in "a cow is similar to a horse, but it's not the same"... I'm not going to slate anyone for their choice of leathers, helmet, gloves, food, drink men/women/both, religion ... that's your choice and it's up to you, and I've worn jeans while riding plenty of times. In fact I rode in Italy at the last WDW in trainers, t-shirt and combats (Fcuk You Safety Nazis!) but I'm trying to give you the information to make an informed decision about your choice rather than making assumptions based on wishy-washy sales pitches and misinformation. I hope they turn out to be a great set of leathers and that you get a bargain. I also hope you don't find out they're not when you're sliding along on your arse...
This is definitely post of the day so far! Having worked out that your suit didn't fit after an off, why did you go on to have a lot more offs in the same non-fitting suit, injuring your knees and elbows on several occasions and breaking your arm? Brilliant! If I fell off that often, I'd make sure that I really did have the best I could afford (and I'd make sure to afford the best). Let's face it, when you take up biking you are going to fall off. OK, there must be a statistically insignificant amount of people who don't, but it's like swimming in shark-infested waters - it's going to happen to you sooner or later. It might take years to happen, but at some stage in your biking career, you'll be talking to the tarmac. If you do track days, you're almost bound to come off after a few. Anyone who is a frequent track-dayer and has never fallen off is either very very lucky, or leaving a huge margin of safety. Oh, and is very lucky. If you go racing, it's just a certainty that you'll fall off. All the time. All of which is why I always wear quality leathers (which fit!). It probably helps that I am a very standard size. Dainese leathers fit me like a glove off the peg. If I was an odder shape, I'd go made-to-measure. Suits last for years and years, until their oh-so-cool designs suddenly look completely naff, unless you went for the invisible all black.
I have custom BKS - I believe the only suit that is CE approved / They supply to the majority of the UK police Expensive yes , fit like a glove and should last me out See quote from website The entire suit is officially CE Approved and manufactured to comply with the European Personal Protective Equipment Directive (EN 1621 - 1 : 1998). This allows us to openly promote the protective qualities of our armour, leather and seam construction in relation to impact, abrasion resistance and burst strength. This is unlike the vast majority of the motorcycle clothing industry - who often make 'riding suits' out of leather, and just fit CE Approved armour. These suits can still not be claimed legally protective.
The only way to have leathers custom made properly is to stand in front of the person taking the measurements.............and then have a fitting later on when they are all cut and part stitched together. My best one piece was made 1990 by Swift (Paul Varnsverry) and it cost close to £1000 including full armour.........having got spat out of the outfit a couple of times, they were worth the money and they are still serviceable today, although they need a good clean and the fabric behind the knees could do with replacing. AL
Coz I'm a cheapskate twat who likes to win and dont consider backing down. Oh and I junked the second FT suit after one crash because of the damage to me as it wasnt very well made, its only my black comfy one I 'keep' crashing in
