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Collateral damage vs. torture: ethics

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Pete1950, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. Is that "we" as in the UK, or "we" as in Nato?

    Are the Americans part of "we"?

    I confess I haven't googled this or looked it up. The Americans used napalm in Vietnam, certainly. Have they given it up in the interim? No one has given Israel a hard time for mining much of Lebanon. I thought the Americans had refused to stop making anti-personnel mines?
     
  2. That's "We" as in the UK and Western Europe (among others)
    Significant non signatory countries are the USA, Russia, Israel, Palestine, North Korea, India, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
     
  3. So our closest allies are prepared to use methods we (and most other countries) find repugnant.

    Shouldn't that bother us as we fight shoulder to shoulder with them?
     
  4. Are you referring to the wars we shouldn't be getting involved in but get bossed into doing so by our closest allies, or in general?
     
  5. Well we have got involved in two unnecessary wars that will have achieved very little and created much misery. They will be footnotes in the history books to be written.

    But it seems over and above that, we are fighting alongside people who we don't consider to be fair fighters, in that they use methods we don't condone. Of course, that hasn't stopped us helping them to torture people either.

    It doesn't seem that we have made our aid conditional on anything, least of all the eschewing of some of the more morally dubious ways of waging war. And when they have locked up our citizens without trial we haven't said "boo".
     
  6. Some collateral damage occurring here as we type. Feeling a cold ball of rage right now but will wait to see what happened and why, in due course.
     
  7. With what or whom?
     
  8. I suffered a reaction to the news that two bombs were detonated at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, whilst runners were still crossing it.
    I feel unaccountably angry towards whomever is responsible.

    Although without a known target for my anger ... perhaps I should instead feel mild curiosity? What do you think?
     
  9. That is one of the objectives of 'terror'.
     
  10. Yes, but terror is the main objective. Anything else on top is a bonus.
     
  11. Terrible terrible.

    But then there seem to be blasts on an almost daily basis in Bagdad killing as many people as died on 7/7. No one seems to bat an eyelid anymore. Is this because they are in Iraq (and thus it's sort of "normal") rather than here or the US? Is it because it's less important if Iraqis die rather than Americans?
     
  12. Cowardly bastards.

    My thoughts are with the poor sods who have been injured, the families of the deceased, and the good people of the emergency services trying to sort the mess out.
     
  13. Terror? terror? You call that terror? It's only terror if you allow it to intimidate you.
     
  14. The perpetrators in Iraq are also cowardly bastards.

    Of course it is not "less important" based on either geography or nationality.

    How do you know what nationality the dead and injured are in Boston?

    Cowards and bullies are the same scum the world over, regardless of their nationality or the country in which they perpetrate their crimes.

    I do however think that the media coverage and the frequency of events can sometimes harden attitudes, maybe that is how some people cope with such awful stuff, especially the families of the honest folk who are victims and the emergency services who have to deal with the mess.
     
  15. What about suspension of rights, in the case of the Boston Bomber in custody, he will be questioned before being read his "Miranda" rights. Not just about the bombing but also about inteligence of cells and overseas training etc etc. Even if it is done without torture is this as ethically as bad?

    Mark
     
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