In the states they have far higher ethnol content and have for years, yet run carbon tanks Matt has one on his lovely SPS, which funnily enough is serviced by JHp...
I will ride it, how couldn't I, just not much. When I do ride it, I guess I will need to put fuel in. Hopefully Matt will tell me his experience on what fuel he uses?
I have had the proper ducati performance ms productions carbon fuel tank on my 916sps since 2007.It did start to leak badly once so took it to Rage designs as he fixes them and had a repaint. JHP told me to look at carbon tank like a race item that will be good for many yrs and then replace as needed.If mine leaks again I might opt for a new one but probably get rage designs to sort it again. I use any fuel in it I can find.Normally super unleaded as my bike runs better than standard unleaded.As for engine mods and service schedule being vastly reduced and parts replaced every 500 km I decided to keep my motor standard.Still I have a Bucci hi comp piston and cyclinder kit that I might fit one day.Trouble is saving for the the crank lightening and balance and all the labour of complete engine strip via JHP and new gaskets etc etc. If the bike being purchased was my bike I wouldn't ride it often as I think the parts and refresh can set you back 2k every 500km if its a proper WSB engine.My wallet aint that deep. Also QB Carbon do very nice MORE robust wet lay carbon tanks but they are alot heavier than ms production pre preg item and a different shape.The QB tanks also have more robust fixing points at front. Hope this helps
I think Rage designs was the ONLY person allowed to fix fuel tanks for BSB racing series under there rules.Not sure if this is still the case.
I'll try and find the link where companies were asked re their ethanol content. Most of the premium unleaded fuel i.e. 97 and 98 octane has very small amounts whereas the 95 octane supplied by most companies has up to 10%. Best sticking to the premium stuff and avoid supermarkets. Just back from europe and their pumps are a bit more upfront and actually label the pumps as e10 for their ethanol fuel.
Be aware you can only store a maximum of 20 litres of fuel in your garage and it must be in 2 x 10 litre containers if you are going to buy any avgas.
Quite. There is no problem with keeping as much as you want in your garage as no one will know...until it goes BOOM. Might turn out quite expensive then especially if you demolish a few surrounding houses and kill a few neighbours in the process. But if you really want to know then....... Petroleum - frequently asked questions - Fire and explosion
Chaps, I know this road has been covered many many times with reference to carbon tanks but the question to ask is not what fuel is being used but what resin was used to make the tank and what process. In terms of fuel safe resin systems one would look at vinyl esther, which is more durable than epoxy and polyester with respect to fuel break down. QB carbon use a polyester wet lay process and then swill some tank sealant in there and job’s a goodun, of which I hasten to add there is nothing wrong with if done right – ask any vintage car owner. Some might say bodge, but its a dam sight cheaper than a fuel cell. Pre-preg will always have better structural integrity over a hand wet lay by virtue of the resin weight being controlled. Anything wet layed or resin infused will be resin rich and therefore far more brittle. However the nature of pre-preg also means that micro porosity can be an issue although very rarely. Again a good tank seal will sort this out. Also pre-preg has the advantage that it’s relatively inert once cured vs wet lay which might still have resin which can react with some chemicals in a more aggressive way. It can be minimised with post curing to a certain extent. Also bear in mind that the rules of the race series being raced in will also govern fuel cell design. 500gp and motogp specified that a fuel cell must have puncture proof membranes in then to stop fuel spillage in case of accidents / cracking. WSB might not be as stringent. Also when you use the tank up during the course of the race and empty it thereafter then long term or delayed porosity is never likely to be a problem and thus never a concern.... Until joe public buys his ex works tank and finds half its contents all over his garage floor after brimming it an leaving it for six months or a year in some cases. Once again, not in itself a problem but mr punter rarely wants to accept that the piece of charcoal fibre he’s payed through the nose for, the team would have put through a band saw and lobbed in a skip a the end of the season anyways. It has to last a season, that’s it, after that it can rot for all they care. You used to see it a lot when people bought ex works cast mag rims and then were told that they had to bin them as they’d corroded beyond recovery. Puncture proof bladders cost money – its a captive market and the minute they are certifiable such as or FIA / FIM approved then the price goes mental – just look at ATL fuel cells as an example. That and they are also lifed – generally a decade for some road applications but probably ( and I don’t know) a hell of a lot shorter for aircraft. Boron/ Kevlar / dyneema won’t stop it from rupturing, all it will do is hopefully stop a carbon splinter using you as a pin cushion. Take it from me, carbon shards and splinters aren’t pleasant to remove once impaled. Nor will it stop fuel from pissing all over the road. Only a fuel bladder can prevent that. I once spoke to John Merrill at QB and he said that his tanks were wet-layed and then post cured (baked) after which he used a fuel tank resin like the vintage car boys to seal the inside. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. Nowadays Ducati and many others have access to great composite facilities and all their aftermarket parts are pre-preg constructions. They currently use an Italian company called CPC if anyone is at all interested. Bottom line is if you buy an old carbon fuel tank and are doubtful of it, do yourself a favour and put your mind at rest by getting it refurbed with a coat of resin inside and some with some tank treatment and then you can merrily fill up with whatever you fancy. You don’t really have a lot of choice really as if you want a fuel cell in there especially shaped to the tank you’ll be shocked at the price. Old race tackle is what it is at the end of the day. You can easily test for porosity or fracture by pressure testing it yourself anyway by sealing all the outlets and the filler and pumping it up with a few PSI, dunk it in a bath full of water and if it weeps tiny bubbles you’ll probably find it’ll sweat or leak fuel over time if not immediately apparent when you fill up. Hope this helps or informs if nothing else!
to all the above.... er no he has a 996SPS with bling on it to make to look like a fogarty era WSB i get where its going but it aint no fogarty WSB either.........sorry! next he will be buying fogarty lookey likey leathers from china...............what sort of dipstick would do that....
He didn't say it was that either, he know's and knew it was a blinged up SPS and he's as happy as a pig in shit with it. You appear very angry or disturbed by his joy :Wideyed:
Andy, when you flunked out of charm school, did you leave quietly or did you go on a killing spree and murder all your teachers and former fellow students?
