You seem to be arguing that unless a measure can be agreed and imposed across the entire world at the outset, it should not be adopted at all. Astonishingly defeatist. I think the EU of 27 (soon 28) states is a good start, and many other nations and groups will follow. It used to be said that the slightest gesture towards regulation of banks would result in them all decamping to Frankfurt or Paris. Now it seems to be the third world (Nairobi or Accra. anyone?). Not very plausible, is it?
Good question. Capping bonuses is more the putting down of a marker, rather than a measure which will have a major direct effect in itself. It is making the point that the democratic institutions of the whole EU are capable of agreeing a definite regulatory measure which will apply to all the banks, which will not be able to play one country off against another. It makes the point that unpopular and grotesquely excessive levels of greed and selfishness guaranteed by taxpayers are unacceptable, and the power and will to take political action across the EU exists. I am immensely cheered up by this news, as you may have gathered.
Sev give yourself one of my hard worked for ceegars . I am self employed ,have been since I was 22yrs old now I'm 47 , I dont have any holidays as such ,short breaks the norm and I'm not complaining that suits me , in those 25yrs on my own I've never been out of work, never been off sick that I can remember , I've worked no matter how bad I've felt. Tips almost completely non existant, a tenner here or their. paid my own wayt through life only owing a mortgage and a loan every now and then for a van . Brought my 999 brand new in 05 , and cant afford to buy another new bike but hey ho I dont give a flying because I've got the bike I want. Things have been getting worse since this crash caused by these tossers. How can global finance be run by people like this who have fucked everyone up ,yet still expect to have a fucking big christmas party ,book an all expenses holiday and still have a fortune left over to put to other things. I go to work on their properties put in a hard days work then hand them the bill and they look at me as if I'm trying to rip their skinny arses off , but they'll think nothing of a corporate dinner party which will pay my wage for a week. And I can tell you it starts from the bottom up. A friend,well my wifes friend if truth be known ,expects their crimbo bonus every year, what for, to pay their credit card off ,from all the friggin parties presents and other shit they dont budget for,yet still feel is their god given right to enjoy because they work in a clean money filled working enviorment looking down their noses at someone who gets dirty for a living. Sorry nothing personal to anyone here but I have no respect for suits that think their better than me because they've got clean nails.
Sorry Pete but I dont agree that just because 27 countries politicians agree something that it is necessarily a good thing. We are all different and have differing ways of life, cultures etc and it is not healthy forcing every one to comply with the same regulations. Vive La Difference as they say in good old wherever it is.
We have an economy where the profits are privatised and the losses are socialised. This is why the bankers are rightly vilified.
Ar, so respond to that but not the other comments?! Interesting stance. And what you are describing; one for all and all for one. If 1 person loses, we all lose, no one makes unless we all make. Sounds like the basis of communism to me, rather than social inclusion through education, opportunity and progress.
Makes me laugh really.... ...here we all are preening our feathers and expounding our knowledge, deluding ourselves that we may have some influence; when in reality there is s*d all any of us can do about it....... AL
The biggest issues are that is it deliberately not making a profit at the moment whilst its publicly owned just to emphasis how shoite the public sector is..........yet they still paid out a cocking bonus and of course when it eventually goes back into private hands at a 'special price' for someones mate, suddenly it will make profit because its part of the oh so quality private sector in this country.
Stranger and stranger! Smearing an arbitrary label "communism" on any ideas you dislike is a practice Joe McCarthy could get away with in 1950's USA, but you're decades late, Bradders, it's 2013 now. Let's take this issue in very easy stages. Stage One. If a company goes broke and closes down, everybody loses their jobs. Hard-working, productive and profitable guys or lazy and wasteful chaps, it makes no difference - the ex-employees are all in the same boat. It may not be fair, but it's what actually happens. Do you accept that as a reality? Is that fact what you call "communism"? Do you disapprove? If we can clarify Stage One, we might be able to go on to Stage Two soon.
I have responded to dozens of comments in this thread, and probably bored everybody to death. Are you saying you think I should have responded to yet more? OK, I'm game - if you could kindly indicate what items you're talking about.
Actually, thinking about it.....I could do something about................I'll become a banker...........(I said banker) .........and therefore, get your hands off my bonus. AL.
Actually, people are rightly whinging about footballers' pay, because it is supposed to be a reasonably fair competition. If you can coral all the best talent by paying ludicrous wages and incurring a monster loss, which is only sustainable because you own some oil wells, or a gas company, or a string of supermarkets, then the competition is clearly unfair, as most of your competitors live in the world of economic realities. But the second point is even simpler. Man City et al have not expected to be bailed out by taxpayers and have not contributed through their greed with a huge economic downturn. So if they want to live in cloud cuckoo land, it's not really any concern of ours, unless you follow the footie.
Not at all. I am in no way advocating the abolition of performance based pay. I'm all in favour of it. I'm just not in favour of pay that is so obscenely huge that it bears no relation to real work. Salaries in industry are not commensurate with salaries in investment banking or hedge funds. They may be for a couple of CEOs in FTSE 100 companies, but we are talking about a handful of individuals, with the responsibility for 10s of 1000s of jobs, and even then, I don't think they should be earning several million quid a year. It's not as if it's their company that they built from scratch, and their only risk is to lose their job (a risk we all face). I also don't think that bankers are a higher form of being. God knows I was at school and university with them. They are no brighter than all sorts of other people. As for the obscene hours, hey, give me obscene pay and I'm game for a few years of that. It's like an addictive game in any case. The happy thing with investment banking is that you can see the results mathematically on a day to day basis - which is hugely motivating. Far harder to be working on some massive complicated project which may take months or years to come off, or which might not even see the light of day. I'm not saying that anyone can be an investment banker. I am saying that I doubt people in banks are any brighter (or that much hard working) than the people I worked with in one of Britain's biggest blue chip companies. Our bonuses were more like 10 - 20% of our annual pay, assuming that the entire company had hit its target, otherwise we all got zilch, no matter how hard we had worked. Target was based on growth, we aren't even talking about standing still, let alone making a loss.
very possible and very likely, and its doesn't even need to be the third world, asia springs to mind loads of commodity markets already running in asia, money is just another commodity and banks could easily relocate there
Maybe a way to understand what would happen is to look at energy use. China, India and other developing economies dont give 2 figs for the environment, refuse to cooperate or sign treaties and we as part of Europe are saddled with the ridiculously high costs of sorting the world out. Why would they treat the financial industry any different?!
