You don't even have to look East for folks who care nothing for the environment or for treaties, and who worship finance above all other ideals. Yes, I'm looking at you, U.S. of A.
As a quick question, how many people in the country even actually understand the following concepts: 1. fiat money 2. the purpose of a bank 3. high powered money and central banking 4. monetary expansion 5. unfunded state pensions and NI obligations (intergenerational borrowing) 6. public debt (and their markets) 7. equity and debt finance of SMEs and/or large private companies. Thought so. So now go and try and have a measured, articulate debate in public about how the current issues arose, and how they might be addressed going forwards. Or, we can just scream "it's someone else's fault - must be those overpaid bankers"...... were they complaining when the scales were being tipped in their favour and they were all enjoying living standards that they would never otherwise have known by any of their genuine economic product? BTW, I am not a banker. But I do hate this naive public debate. Has anyone actually noticed that the larger issue here is actually the relative decline of the US and Western Europe compared to the rise of the East? 500 years of European ascendancy in reverse in a sub 100 year period..... Or has everyone also swallowed the Western Civilisation / IMF / Washington Consensus view of the world, that has only typified economic reality for a very short period of economic history (50 years) in one very small part of the world (ours).........
i think a majority of people on here could make a quote or comment about their own field of work and most wouldn't understand it! doesnt make them elite or non accountable......they the investment lot got even more greedy....and fooked it up for us all!!!
Experts ... the more they learn, the less they know! Heh. But I digress ... The ignorant slob in me thinks that the differences in minimum wage, "living" wage, average salary and the salaries/bonuses at the very top should not be as pronounced as they currently are. I have my doubts whether it is government's place to directly address the highest echelon's pay, but some of the alternative methods for addressing the difference could get quite bloody. Perhaps the highest paid in society ought to take a day off to consider the wider meanings of the words "sustainability" and "shame". As for how we got into this mess, how it could be avoided and what lessons have been learned ... I leave all that in the hands of the *cough*experts*cough*.
Absolutely not. Globalisation and the 'New World Order' is a developing reality, the consequences of which we are only just beginning to glimpse. The bankers know this and are feathering their nests before the shit hits the fan.
Probably very few people have ever bothered to think about this but for thjose who have the concepts are not that difficult, although I accept the detail may be. Good point This is the crux of the matter.
What do any of us know? It does not stop us having opinions (well founded or otherwise) and having a debate. Long may it continue.
Here are a few facts to chew over..... Total bonus paid in the UK in the 2011/12 tax year was a staggering £37 Billion. The average per person was £1,400. The average in the finance and insurance industry was £12,000. The next highest was Mining at £4,000-5,000. Elements of the RBS financial results are as follows... Operating profit up from £1.8 Billion to £3.5 Billion. Total provisions set aside for various failures as follows .... LIBOR rigging £381 Million PPI mis selling £2.2 Billion Interest rate hedging mis selling £700 Million Technology failure £175 Milion Various legacy conduct issues £160 Million My conclusions.... There are a lot of hard working folks in all industries who earn an appropriate bonus for meeting and exceeding their objectives. There are a small number of unscrupulous bastards who line their own pockets by ripping off their customers, the companies they work for and pretty much every other citizen in our fine country. Some of the former leaders of our financial industry have a lot to answer for. Many of those currently at the helm are trying to sort out the huge mess left by others - who have not been brought to account for what they have done. That is fucking appalling. Do I think that having a bonus structure to encourage success is a good thing. A resounding yes. Do I think anyone should earn a bonus more than 100% of their salary (in any industry). No. If it is the case, I think the balance between risk and reward is wrong, and encourages those who can to take the outrageous decisions that have cost RBS (and more importantly, the poor buggers who did business with them in good faith) Bilions of pounds.
Best get these all paid for from the public purse.......beforre handing over the negative accounts to the private sector arse pocket....
May I set out the reason why I started this thread? We each of us have our various views; our own opinions are called common-sense while the opinions of others are called prejudices. Some people are so filled with hatred of bankers that they are in favour of any measure which does them down, regardless of its other consequences. Then there are some who hate the EU so much that they are opposed to any policy agreed by EU institutions, again regardless of its merits or otherwise. In several cases the same people hate both the EU and the bankers, often for obscure reasons. This EU bonus capping news gave rise to an interesting opportunity. People could be presented with a dilemma. They would not be able to take the routine knee-jerk line on both the EU and the bankers, so what would they do? Make a decision on the priorities, one way or the other? refuse to play ball? introduce irrelevant digressions? or maybe their heads would explode. Reading through the thread, the answer is now clear. Isn't it?
Clear...yep, line the investment bankers up against the wall with their politician mates......ready, aim,.......
I really couldn't give a shit. As long as I can provide and care for my family they can do what they want. of course, if the day comes that I can't, I'll shoot the bastards.
I don't even pretend to understand the banking system, it's way above my pay scale. However, the way I see it is this, and feel free to correct me. The economy both in the UK and globally is in shite state, and we need the banks to help dig us out of this. To do this they have to employ some bright sparks who will be responsible for an awful lot of money and will expect a salary commensurate with that. As a tax payer I have an interest in the banks the state has 'bailed out'. I want them to succeed and for that they need to retain and attract the staff to do the job. To this end they have to offer an attractive package, equal to that of the non-state owned banks. Do I like that idea, no. Do I accept that it's what will happen, yes. As a state employee I've seen my fair share of cuts. My salary has been reduced by over £10k a year, and my pension isn't what I hoped it will be when I retire. Listen up guys and girls, it's a big shit sandwich and we've all got to take a bite.
Isn't that a bit like when the Police have to pay compensation for wrongful arrest or when someone "fell down the station steps, m'lud" as that comes out of the public purse as well? At least in banking nobody died as a result.
Only some people, namely the bankers and politicians, seem to think they are exempt, because they are worth it.
Except for those at the higher levels of the banking industry who are rewarded for failure. as a mere Chartered Engineer, I am obviously too stoopid to understand the banking and finance industry, and how somebody (singular or collective) can cause an immense, and seemingly (with 20/20 hindsight glasses) bleeding obvious f**k up and be rewarded with bonuses that are highly immoral. I, in my mere Engineering role can take very high risk, but unethical decisions that can earn both me and my employer large amounts of money, but I have a moral compass that can work through the quite complex arguments and possible outcomes of my decisions, and ensure that I can still earn both me and my employer good returns in an ethical, moral and responsible way. Obviously, this is just my low intelligence version and view, coz I isn't a bigwig in da city.
