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Panigale V2 is dead already

 

At 20-25k I’d say a lot of panigale owners will go for it.. if it’s pretty

 

And thuis will kill the V4 before it starts. Needs to compete with R1 and RSV4R. At a base price of 20k plus, it won't be

 

It's a no-brainer IMO

 

So you bought an S for 22k, you have had it 2 years, they'll offer you what, 14k? so you have to pay another 10k for a NON S model. Not sure myself...and new buyers?

 

That's no different to how it is now, and always has been though is it? Same with cars etc

 

Not when price point for all you competition is 10k less. Even at 18k base vs ZX10 at 14 (?) it still needs a certain type of buyer. Add 4-5k to that...far less buyers about.

 

@ 20-25k I’ll buy one if they look the part and it gets me going.

Missus has already been T’d up ha

 

They sold shit loads of panigale S’s though, I see more of them than base models about

 

At 22k. Did they sell shitload of Rs? Just sceptical that as prices increase, are they going back to the days of exclusivity, which means less volume and more risk of failure. Remember a 916 base was about 14k when the same R1 was 7k. You saw loads of R1s, hardly any 916 and most broke down...

 

But this has always been the case hasn't it? The 916 was a good wedge more expensive that 'the competition' and it's been the same ever since, ZX10 is not in direct competition with Ducati Superbikes in the buyer's mind anyway - if they want a cheap soulless high-HP buyers will go for the ZX10, if they want a Ducati they'll buy the Ducati - same as it's always been mate.

plus the R1 isn't in competition with Pani (etc) buyers, the R1M is but not the R1.

Ducati Superbike buyers know they'll pay a premium compared to most other bikes, and they're OK with that

 

They have already sold pretty much all of the Rs so...

 

200? hardly going to keep DUK at Silverstone fully funded...

Point is, the premium for Ducati seemed to be 20% at worst since the 999 era, it will now be 40-50%. They soda great job with the Panigale pulling in punters from Japan super bikes: that may stop. Maybe some want that, they like having something not everyone can afford, but again that won't fund DUK and its likely high overhead never mind Italy.

IMO

 

How about the new buyers? In order to survive today as a brand you have to sell much more that they did back 916 era.
Not sure how much it costs but must be huge investment to develop a new superbike from scratch, there are only 2 ways to recover the investment. Sell with small profit but in great numbers(japo way) or sell limited quantities but much more expensive (old italian way).
I believe Ducati took the middle way lately...and it seems it paid off. Probably helped by Yen vs GBP conversion rate as well.
20-25% on a based model can be accepted anything above this people will start to think if it is reallly worth that much more when basically a R1 or ZX10 does exactly the same lap time.

 

Well it didn't affect sales of the Panigale did it? Or the 1x98 series? It's not just the 916 series Superbikes that have cost a lot more than the Japanese bikes, it's all Ducati Superbikes. I'm not sure what your point is here (same as @bradders) unless the only point is "I'd like to buy one but wish it was cheaper" ?

Fact is if you bin the emissions gubbins you could enter the new bike into a BSB race if you're a good enough rider. I'd call that a bargain.

It'll be the most powerful mass produced bike ever, by any manufacturer, and people are moaning about the cost (which is about the same as the old model) and the shape of the fairing... I really don't get it

 

and FWIW it's the Monsters/Diavels/Scramblers/Multistradas that make the company the big bucks not the Superbikes.

 

I dont quite agree with this point. I only mention as it's an irritant for me personally. To race the Panigale you have to do some big modifications to fit a decent belly pan, ideally an uprated radiator, and a shed load of money on a race exhaust. Ducati dont make it easy to do all that stuff either. I dont mind spending the extra money on purchasing the bike but it makes me really annoyed if I then have to spend thousands to make it a race bike. You could rightly argue that you are spending money on the S for all the nice road parts and I'd agree that it's probably the best road bike out there but it hurts when the same thing applies to the R (ace) version. I was right up for racing my 1199S as it had fared so well with a couple years of trackdays but I ended up going the R6 route because of the difficulty in getting the bike race legal.

 

My point was that Panigale is much more near the R1M(or other japanese bikes) that the 916 was to the old r1. Hence sold a lot more in percentage compared to the older ducatis.
21k Panigale
19k R1m
16k Base Panigale
15k Base Yamaha
As you see 10% difference.


I spent nearly the cost of 2no 1199R on bikes in teh last 4 years...anyway, nothing to do with my opinion on v4 or Ducati pricing politics.

The only reason I have not bought a Panigale is that I believe 1299cc a bit too much to be split in between only 2 cylinders. It does work but with lower rpm and it is on teh border...So basically I knew 2 years ago what Domenically just said (if you read between lines) Panigale is the border of how far can we push the V2= we need more cylinders and higher revs to get more power.

And yes I agree the naked/sport tourers are the back bone of sale=profit.
But in the meantime Ducati is a business(that wasn't to far from going bust couple of years ago) and as such I don't believe the shareholders are going to be sad if they make some monies even on the superbike.

 

Sorry I was referring to the new V4 not the V2, and as far as the other additional stuff that has to be done - rules are rules aren't they and they're the same for all competitors, yes you have to lockwire the shit out of everything and have a belly pan that holds oil but that's the same for all race classes and new bikes just don't go into the showrooms that are 'race series ready' do they? ie you always have to spend more time and money making a road bike comply with race series rules.

Funny you mention the R6, I've been training with some R6 guys a few days this year and there's nothing wrong with the lap times they can pull, and at a fraction of the cost and ongoing repair bills for a big Ducati!

Out of interest how are you finding the bike to ride on the limit compared to your Ducati?

 

Let's be honest whatever the price it's going to sell.