For All The Naysayers: Circuit Of Wales To Go Ahead

in which case get some investment in there.
wales is labour run yes? i wonder how much of thier under spend they have sent back?
anyhoo.

 

you welsh DB?

 

I'm Taffy from down the road in Bridgend so I'm biased I suppose but my take on "wasting taxpayers money" is this: Even if this runs at a loss to the taxpayer, it'll create jobs in the area and attract tourists (i.e. us!) to the area where we'll spend our money, putting it into the local economy. Anything that does that keeps the locals from being on the dole or turning to crime which costs the tax payer a fortune, either in payments or cost of keeping people in jail (the latter is astronomic). Those employed people pay tax so there's some return. We could spend the money on extra education but if there's no local business or industry those educated kids will leave the area creating even more of a vacuum. Lets's give this venture a chance and some support. It certainly can't hurt and the cost to the taxpayer (if any) will likely be a shitload less that we regularly piss into the wind (assorted wars, MP second homes etc etc).

 

cool cool. never been. maybe this year.

 

i wouldn't like to say. i am all about building bridges. no burning them. or cottages :smileys:

 

Almost Welsh then, I wondered why you were a little tetchy at times :Angelic:

 

I think Britain desperately needs a world class circuit.There’s plenty of circuits that are suitable for BSB or club racing, but not for Moto Gp, WSB and F1. if it does go ahead in Wales that would be fine by me as long as it’s done right… Scotland would be even better though! Perhaps someone could get Donald Trump into bike racing and he could build one!

 

Longest post ever?

Without any bias what is it wrong with being objective? Why did the recession start, lending that could not be paid back.
I'm not a nay sayer just concerned about the state of county, the economy, the future and I am no expert.

I just run a small business and little changes effect me. I have a child too and I think about that also. This country give away lots in foreign aid (even brag we contribute more than most) lots is wasted and I don't agree with it. Small businesses on the other hand have to run very tight ship, wear many hats to earn a living with mandatory overheads that are very high and out of our control. This project may be largely private money but it will still come at a price.

I would not want to lose other circuits. It's got nothing to do with them being on the door step.
Travelling a few hours is not the biggest challenge I've ever faced I wish it was. I travel all round the UK to tracks on a fairly regular basis. I was sad when Mallory was on the brink, the history.
It was also the cheapest track for race licence holders to test, run in an engine etc that I know of.

Also for me, new big wide circuits are not as much fun (to use) unless you like motorways or you can do 200MPH+.
Most non international machinery is lost in space on a wide circuit. That is why in my opinion Cadwell and Oulton are fantastic (for us people not running super exotic machinery) and Silverstone is quite dull. A new circuit will have big run offs = spectators further from the action. Old circuits are where the heros race, that is why road racing is what it is.

I do think it's quite optimistic to hope this happens especially in the time frame.
Although I'd love something to make us proud again. I was proud when we hosted the Olympics.

I just think it is a little concerning that in effect we will hope to increase the income compared to a circuit like Silverstone substantially when that has struggled. For a super circuit to offer reduced rates for how long?
I would like it to happen and to succeed and be glad if it does but suspect it will struggle.

If it was in the US and it took off it may be different.
This country never seems to generate the same kind of enthusiasm. Tracks host less well known events through out the year in the UK (cheap tickets) and the stands are empty, a little better if it's nice and sunny. Lots of towns have local racers but most people who watch F1 or Moto GP have no idea who these guys are. The glorified events don't fill a circuit calendar.

I was at Donnington British GT last year (Le mans teams present) and it was far from Crowded, with F4 and other championships racing. You could meet drivers who may race in F1 one day... for about £20 with access to the Paddocks it was good value. On the other hand, Brands gets busy on less well known race events and I'd guess that is because of it's location.

It's a tall order (looking at Motorsport as a big picture) with Suzuki dropping out of MotoGP years ago, British F3 struggled to make good grids. Career Car Championships have been encouraged to race in Asia with package deals.
Other countries do more to encourage Motorsport. I believe Macau part funds the bike road racing teams logistics, invite only. While In the UK some club Championships did not go to Anglsea, something to do with average grid sizes need to be 16 or above or they are not granted permission under the organisers to continue with dwindling numbers, eventually. These are Championships where testing and entry fees are over £300 a day and these guys budget 90K to 250K a season you don't want to lose this income.

I've worked on large construction projects in the past, Burton on Trent, Argos distr centre, Peterborough Debenhams Distrib centre buildings that require new roads to be built, the company I worked for would have tendered for part of Term 4 Heathrow. I've also worked for expanding Motorsport Companies that built new buildings in the past.

Planning and Construction will not consider some issues of the end user. Investors have contracts that mean some will get money back before it makes a profit, having big names involved does not mean success and bad ideas have been given the go ahead in the past. I think of the NHS for computer systems that were never used or, oil in Nigeria for how private equity and or big investment works with organisers taking big sums of money and walking away.
What about Bernie E as an example of how deals work.

As someone who has borrowed to invest if I was putting money into this, I would compare the two sites (comparing sites is normal) the road networks / distances around Silverstone, Airports and capacities, Hospitals. I would look at the density of the population and age, who could provide huge numbers of temporary staff experienced with events, students etc that do not need full time work. Police, Fire services. So much accommodation at various prices, enough it could fill all the travel lodges for miles around. Yet all only certain times of the year, how do these places stay viable when the big events are not there. You'd need other reasons to visit this area, to keep these restaurants and or hotels sound. You can't go expanding airports etc.. for a couple events a year.

The local people need to be able to have disposable income to support some of these services and not three years after it is built when businesses are struggling.

Financially I would look at the cost to build said circuit and amenities and times scales.
It's not good to invest 100's of million and wait a long time (delays etc) to get any return.
This project is not chicken feed, these kind of sums effect big companies. There are examples of Private equity companies who back businesses who work with governments, demanding the companies reshuffle top level staff to secure contracts to satisfy share holders.

I would look at the books for Silverstone income and expenses as a model to see how much it can expect to make annually and calculate the costs to repay and profit a new circuit. Basically a business evaluation. Of course this has all been done, but by who and to what benefit.

Despite how much we would love a great circuit in the UK, it has to be financially viable to exist.
This country has been in enough trouble and they do not seem to support these ventures as well as some countries do and hugely under estimate ventures and proceed on bad advice. I would suspect it is probably because the important people are making a profit out of it regardless.

Banks have very strict policies about borrowing, like who gets paid what when and how much they charge when it goes tits up and what they can do. I doubt any investment company makes less interest / profit than a bank, especially with unsecured or high risk lending. It's not even an asset until it is built and you can't borrow against thin air. I've tried to borrow for a project on the basis of what it is worth when it's finished. Not to mention penalties and clauses.

A quick search on Google will show how much Motorsport in F1 alone is centred around Silverstone. The historic circuit and the government did not step in to help Silverstone at that time. What does that say, there is not enough return in tax revenue or risk to return is too high for the Government to value F1 revenue enough? F1 team owners did not think of buying it to develop, despite the huge wealth in the sport and fingers in pies with almost everyone involved.

I don't like Silverstone much by the way and would love a great circuit but the size of investment to provide an area geared up for these events is enormous and the people involved will have their own interests at heart. I'd look at it more on the scale of building a small city.

How do they expect to run sewage and ground works for a track and hotels etc, then build everything in a short amount of time. Have they got companies already fabricating grand stands so they are finished before concrete is poured?

I fear in general, until we work out how to reduce where all these billions are going. To make money more as a country rather than hitting the British people to pay for everything. The majority will be upset about the cost of living and why we keep using cuts to cover these costs.

I don't like hearing British people moaning about the rich poor divide or about the cuts in benefits. To enjoy life and leisure events, businesses to do well, people need disposable income. We are distracted by one hand while the other one is doing is us harm. People in the UK bash those working hard but the large companies exploit the system and you hardly ever see them held accountable. How many were let off huge tax bills in the last three years alone.

I hope that sounds fair if anyone read this far they deserve a gold star, it probably makes no sense.

 

this is complete nonsense

overall their are only so many ££££ to be spent so every £ spent in wales is a pound less spent somewhere else

every job created in wales is a job less some where else

all equal then well no there is a huge capital investment to create a new facility that will render another obsolete

so there is a loss of capital somewhere in the equation so overall this circuit in wales is going to soak up money from somewhere either from the punters or the tax payer, over all is not going to create any jobs

basically the uk is broke and can not afford vanity projects like this, however if its funded 100% by the EU then I will change my mind and think it is a great idea, better the money is squandered in the Uk then elsewhere in mainland europe

have clashed swords or words many time on this forum with 1950pete usually coming off second best, this time I have to agree 100% with him

 

'....overall their are only so many ££££ to be spent so every £ spent in wales is a pound less spent somewhere else

every job created in wales is a job less some where else

all equal then well no there is a huge capital investment to create a new facility that will render another obsolete

so there is a loss of capital somewhere in the equation so overall this circuit in wales is going to soak up money from somewhere either from the punters or the tax payer, over all is not going to create any jobs...."

On this basis nothing would ever be built anywhere, anytime?

 

bow down people of wales. you dont have the skills. kin oaff

 

i wasn't saying that. :Hilarious::smileys:.
maybe i am aff me heed. but naysayers get on my paps. :smileys: