So how does evolution work again .....??? survival of the fittest ?? The Darwin Awards should be compulsory reading for kids....maybe they can learn from others mistakes
I mostly work on roofs. The only thing that's gonna hit me up there is a jumbo jet, and a little plastic hat is only going to be of limited use in such a situation. And why should I have to wear a hi-viz on a roof? If I get run over by a dumper truck up there I'd suggest the driver did bloody well. But I have to wear them, not on the odd site but on every site, even when it makes no sense to do so. And wearing a hi-viz when you're inside a working chiller pumping out 50+ degrees of heat in the middle of summer is definitely something I'd describe as suffering...
If you're on roofs, I'd guess you could get whacked on the head by scaffolding, dropped tools, tiles or bricks, and the hi-viz might be there so that colleagues can see you when they're shifting gear about, and the crane driver doesn't hit you with a load of joists. Of course, you could try signing an indemnity to say that if you suffer a head injury causing a debilitating injury through not wearing a hard hat, you won't expect any compo and you won't sue anyone. I doubt that it would work though.
You noticed how the people telling you to wear a hard hat all day whilst your laying kerbs or slates or block paving are only wearing theirs for a 10 minute site visit . I think they should also have to wear them for a 10 hour period incase the roof of the car mysteriously comes down and hits them on the head or a piece of ceiling falls down whilst they are typing up their report in their heated/air controlled office falls and chops there fucking face off .
I shouldn't need to do that, I should be able to get on with my job without having to worry about health and safety, because I am sensible enough to not kill myself while working. I'm in more danger cooking dinner at home than I am working.
+1 my recent run in with H+S was during his monthly inspection where he decided my machine shop was overcrowded (its been the same for the last 4 years), so I removed 3 cupboards and put all the stuff from them on some open racking (so it now get covered in swarf and dust and is 3ft deep so getting to the tooling at the back is crap) now he is happy and we have passed. He said it was now much better ....what did I think? I didn't say what I thought cause it might offend him.....an office waller who knows nothing about using a machine shop....not even willing to come down and spend a few days with me to find out. and all the risk assessments written by people who don't even know how to use the machines and didn't bother to ask.
A lot of my work involves sticking my head above ceilings and fixing a/c units. This causes great problems for the H&S brigade, which in turn costs the client a fortune. One job involved me changing a fan motor on a packaged a/c system above a suspended ceiling during a site renovation. No stepladders were allowed on site, so I told the H&S nazi I couldn't do the job, and would he kindly sign my job sheet? He refused to sign the jobsheet, but said he would investigate a safe way to carry out the job and get back to me. (In the meantime I warned the client that the job would be very costly if we did it the 'approved' way). Next day the H&S prune called me back to site with a solution - he'd procured an extra-tall podium (like a fat pair of steps you can't fall off); unfortunately this necessitated the removal of a large part of the suspended ceiling. I left site, came back the next day, erected the podium and found it was too wide to fit between the a/c unit and all the electrical trunking. Two days later I returned to site. Almost all of the suspended ceiling had been removed, and full-on scaffolding had been erected up to ceiling height all the way around the a/c unit. I had full access to the plant, and I couldn't possibly fall over - success! Except...my original price for the job, excluding materials, was £800. The total bill for the job after dickhead got involved (and I was given this figure by the client) was £11,500. My bill doubled, the rest was for a new ceiling, scaffolding and lost site time for other trades. Brilliant! I've been back to that site since to change another fan motor, using steps, during the day with shoppers wandering round me, no PPE and no time and motion study - no-one died, because I'm a professional, I know what I'm doing. I had to remove one ceiling tile...
I had a major fire at work a month ago, burned out the whole building, but that's another story for another day. However, I was chatting to a senior fire officer whilst we watched my business go up in smoke. He was telling me that at the fire station some time back a light bulb went out. They had a spare which they planned to fit, but he phoned head office to order a replacement (it was one of those big industrial bulbs, not something you pick up in Tescos). They asked what he was doing and he told them he was going to put a ladder up and change it. Head office informed him that he wasn't allowed to do it due to Working at Height regulations. He reminded them of what he did for a living but was told that he hadn't been trained for that kind of work. He said "ok we'll bring an appliance in and use the ladder on that. I'm trained to use a fire engine". He was told that wasn't allowed as fire appliances had not been assessed for that work. Head office then arranged for 2 chaps from Bristol 40 miles away to come out that day, a Sunday, to change one light bulb. He was livid. The cost must have been astronomical. His view was that it's not just the public's taxes that pay for this stuff but his taxes too. Plus the cost for this will have come out of the Fire Services budget. He told me that although they have had to order a couple of bulbs since as "stock", no more have actually failed.
you see, this is really the crux of the problem. people like other people to do the thinking for them. rules and laws are there for a reason, (usually to protect the rule and law makers), but often rules and laws are just wrong, stupid or downright bullshit. your mate has allowed himself to be brainwashed by the training courses. next he'll be signing up for scientology courses. everyone has to think a bit for themselves, and use a bit of common sense. no flip flops on a building site like they do in the UAE for instance, or a turban instead of a crash helmet.
with the systematic dismantling of our manufacturing and production industries in the 80's, weve replaced making things, and doing things, with talking about how to make and do things..i think, apart from the bleedin' obvious, its called 'the service sector'..people creating nothing jobs to justify their own existance. the litigous culture didnt start UNTIL HSE not because of it. if its intentions were soley to protect workers then fair enough...in that respect theyre like a modern union, sadly however, because of the clipboard (with rounded ends), (retractable) ball point pen and (non bio) overcoat nature of the HSE, its run by council/politician/officious bell end types, or people that have a predisposition to this way of thinking...or people who need a fkn job because we dont make/do things anymore, and have to either tow the line through gritted teeth, or allow themselves to 'believe' its a good thing. We need Health and Safety rules..without them idiots would be idiots (check youtube for confirmation) and large corporations would have kids working 18 hour shifts (like Apple do in China, with an enormous rate of youth suicide as a consequence)...however, its got to the point where one cant sharpen a pencil beyond certain tolerances... its all part of the PC culture...well meaning, but run by childish people who assume that because they have a degree, then the great unwashed must be even more childish than they are. Another one of my anecdotes (feel free to flame me and send abuse to my inbox): SCUBA instructing at Centre Parks Sherwood Forest..HSE were coming to shine torches up our arses..so everything was checked, cleaned, replaced, serviced, laminated, displayed, filed, repaired, screwed back on, hidden for later, painted and washed down and polished again, mopped and then given adequate time to dry thoroughly before applying a pea sized amount.. One of our storage 'huts' (concrete bunker) even had a new concrete path laid (with a grippy surface courtesy of a bit of wood to ripple it when its was curing)... HSE bloke (Mr.Bean), failed it or whatever it was these people do because, 'there was not adequate provision to prevent wet leaves and other organic detritus from straying onto the path, significantly increasing the risk of a slip and trip accident"... The clue here people, is that we were in Sherwood FOREST..its full of fkn trees....you sweep the path, close your eyes, reopen them...leaves on the path...complete and utter fkn nonsense...he spent more time whittling about that than checking the compressors, filtration systems, lifting and handling, and even pre dive safety drills and emergency procedures.. Load of boswelox.
One of the problems of H&S is that it, perhaps unintentionally, removes responsibility from individuals and places it with organisations. I always get the impression that if you give people responsibility they will behave responsibly but if you treat them like fools......
It doesn't though. Organisations set the requirement to risk assess all tasks and stop the job to reassess if conditions change. In the event of an 'accident' either the risk assessment wasn't done or it was done incorrectly, either way the organisation is not at fault. The responsibility is very much on the individual.
Maybe I didn't word my post well ? Endless H&S interference and risk assessments ,in my experience , can lead people to feel that there is nothing to worry about and forget to take the normal precautions they would take . A bit like the stories of folk who follow sat navs and end up in a river instead of thinking for themselves.
Whilst I would agree that if a risk assesment has been done correctly, by someone who actually understands the job, risk should be minimised it is impossible to completely remove all risk from all jobs ( unless you actually do absolutely nothing ). Risk can be made "ALARP" - As Low As Reasonable Practicable - but there are some jobs where some risk will always remain. That is where experience, judgement and common sense come into play. However - I am always reminided of one thing when this sort of subject is discussed - "good judgement comes from experience - unfortunately most experience comes from bad judgement..."
Well, if I can't join them, maybe I can beat them. I've just put my hand on a hot oven ring, like a dickhead, but there were no warnings that it would be hot (even though it was me wot turned it on). Do you think I should sue..?
couldn't agree more with you. The thing with HSE is that they do not have or believe in common sense, and a high percentage of them have no experience or knowledge of the task at hand, and how could they, the jobs are that diverse that its a minefield, a little knowledge is also dangerous. I find trying to get a PTW these days very frustrating, five minute job turns into days of permit meetings, then thrown out because you haven't put colour code of lifting equipment, although it stated use current colour code. All this for a ten minute job. I really am getting fed up working offshore. The management are so frightened if something goes wrong that it will land on their desk. Consequence management and all that, no blame bullshit.
