Agreed. Dale Cregan is a homicidal maniac currently being tried for multiple murders including two Policewomen. It's not news that there are nasty f*ckers out there, and some will claim to be part of some greater political or cultural struggle, but mainly because it suits their own sick motivations. They are just bad f*ckers. They could be gay bhuddists from the Isle of Man (unlikely I grant you :wink, but that would not make everyone from the Isle of Man evil, nor all gay bhuddists.
It is normal that there will be some form of investigation if guns were fired on the streets. I'd sooner that than have guns fired willy nilly with no questions asked. There is no reason to suspect that they will be "grilled" or that their actions will be found to be anything but utterly professional and justified. At the moment the "two evil criminals" are languishing in hospital beds trying not to die. Which is fine, but your post suggests a lack of proportion in the treatment of the criminals and of those who shot them. I don't think this lack of proportion exists. It all seems quite proportionate to me.
This murder took place just a couple of hundred yards away from the IRA bomb at the Kings Arms pub back in '74, which killed two people.
it is totally normal. in every case where lethal force authorised and used there is an inquiry and the officers in the case are ordinanarily suspended. there is nothing unusual about that. it is the norm (and dont ask me who norm is lol)
Why? In the current case it would have made no difference at all. And it's not as if the current case is an everyday occurrence.
They would have had someone there armed in minutes, who knows maybe before they started trying to hack his head off?! And in London in kind of is. In that there are stabbings and murders every day. Another for the progressive politics lot to debate
I'd rather coppers armed than more strangle-control on movement of citizens within the UK. Which is coming
Routinely arming the police wouldn't reduce those killings though would it, I doubt if many are carried out in front of a police officer. My understanding from talking to the serving police officers I know is that most do not want to be routinely armed.
Without drifting too far off topic, Of course there should be an investigation, however my point is around the de briefing, support and communication the IPCC / Met has with its no doubt suspended officers during this torrid time, bearing in mind they have just shot somebody, which although they carry firearms and are expected to do so, isn't and everyday occurrence. Iv'e no doubt they will be found to have acted correctly but unless anyone supports them constantly, it would be oh so easy for them to doubt their actions and feel they have done wrong. PTSD if you will. now back to normal programming
I would imagine, shooting to incapacitate rather than 'shoot to kill' shows that the officer acted completely by the book. If it'd been me, I don't think I would have shown that level of restraint.
Andyb will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong, but since the Steven Waldorf incident years ago, the police don't generally have access to weapons; ie, they don't 'draw' firearms like you would see in the Sweeney...........it is left to a few armed officers in Diplomatic Protection and maybe a few in the Flying Squad, but mainly to SCO19. They used to train and be based at Lippits Hill near High Beech, but now they train at Gravesend.......So as far as I know now, they generally have a number of ARVs and teams at various locations around the city. AL
well, like all books on truthology, the quoran is quite explicit in its rules, and these so called nutters were only doing as it says in the rule book..they also love a bit of apostacy iin their religion of peace. islam is where christianity was a couple of hundred years ago, sadly though, we now how have nukes and dirty bombs...back in the days of the crusades the christians would have done the same terrible deeds in a bid to save our souls or spread civilisation...they used whatever means were available at the time (with a large dose of magic and cruelty thrown in to keep the invisible sky wizard happy)... a couple of my mates are muslim, one has just returned from a family visit to Pakistan and said the place did his head in after a few days...weve never got into a theological debate but i know he takes his kids to the mosque etc..thankfully, he sees how backward the culture is in his own country and enjoys the freedom that he and his family have in England (he's born and bred Nottingham and uses the Notts greeting of 'ey oop me duck'...that said, he probably still believes that a flying horse came to have a chat with mohammed whilst taking a sabbatical in his cave. isnt it sickening how the nutters all yell Allah Akbar when they set fire to someone, or cut off a persons hands in the street? its just an expression of love for the prophet i guess..well, thats the sort of compassion we could all do without.
well, like all books on truthology, the quoran is quite explicit in its rules, and these so called nutters were only doing as it says in the rule book..they also love a bit of apostacy in their religion of peace. islam is where christianity was a couple of hundred years ago, sadly though, we now how have nukes and dirty bombs...back in the days of the crusades the christians would have done the same terrible deeds in a bid to save our souls or spread civilisation...they used whatever means were available at the time (with a large dose of magic and cruelty thrown in to keep the invisible sky wizard happy)... a couple of my mates are muslim, one has just returned from a family visit to Pakistan and said the place did his head in after a few days...weve never got into a theological debate but i know he takes his kids to the mosque etc..thankfully, he sees how backward the culture is in his own country and enjoys the freedom that he and his family have in England (he's born and bred Nottingham and uses the Notts greeting of 'ey oop me duck'...that said, he probably still believes that a flying horse came to have a chat with mohammed whilst taking a sabbatical in his cave. isnt it sickening how the nutters all yell Allah Akbar when they set fire to someone, or cut off a persons hands in the street? its just an expression of love for the prophet i guess..well, thats the sort of compassion we could all do without.
A truly horrific incident. From a plod perspective is there such thing as shooting to incapacitate ? I will have to ask my retired ex firearms officer friend next time I see him.
indeed there is. surely you have heard of rubber bullets and errrrr section 5.1b firearms (TAZAR RIFLES) and of course non lethal areas even though the outcome still could be lethal (shot in leg - hit artery etc)
It has almost become a cliché to remark that Islam has not yet gone through the Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution which the Christian world developed in the 18th century. Islam is still fully immersed in the time of magic, cruelty and ignorance. Mind you, the Enlightenment project is not quite complete yet in the Western world, and might slide back - viz. current debates about equal rights for women and gays, abusive priests, and child mutilation. There are still people in Britain (and maybe on this forum) who think it's 1713 instead of 2013.
OK. What about excluding rubber bullets and Tazars. In what circumstances would a firearms officer aim for a 'non lethal area' as opposed to 'the centre of the target'. Surely the decision to take a shot is a last resort when there is an immediate threat.
