Chains are not like belts and I understand that the chain failure on the diesel BMWs is down to another problem, but like you say BMW is not going to admit that too quickly. The 330d is one of my top desirable cars, only trouble is that living very rural, it would not be as practical as my 4x4.
Manufacturing problem that has now been rectified apparently. Just don't buy one that's out of warranty ! The new 330d X drive is amazing ......
Belt life is one of those things where I doubt the necessity of changing them religiously every two years on low-mileage bikes but, equally, haven't got the courage of my convictions. On the SS I do push it to three years. On the 998 I change them every two (well, Geoff Baines does), even in very low mileage use.
Exactly. I left my 999s belt change for three years and every time I rode it last year it was on my mind which kind of spoilt the experience.
it has been said that service intervals are set by accountants, i quite often get asked to check timing belts but i wont, it's ether do it or don't. out of the many hundreds i have done usually around the correct interval there is no obvious faults with them or the pulleys, but i guess that's the hole point. replace before they fail. personally i would go with the bike expert rather than the accountant.
I had a chat this week with a VERY knowledgeable bloke who has been working on Duc's since the 851 and is well known as a quality workman on this forum. He said the most important thing 're belts was fitting correctly. He has only seen a snapped belt a handful of times and has seen a monster ride up with 10 year old belts. The broken belts he has seen were due to poor fitting. He also said to start the bike every few months so that it clears the fuel through as modern petrol has additives he does not like sitting in the fuel system for prolonged periods. I made the suggestion and he agreed that a good move is to use this mid winter start as a good time to change the oil as the engine needs running for 10 mins anyway. Peace
So in essence, more belts have broken due to replacing than over running the 2 year rule to as much as 10 years, thread closed and peace?
That is something of an exaggeration surely - the engine parts will still be coated with a thin film of oil which will provide some lubrication in the time it takes for normal oil circulation to be resumed? Clearly it may be a less-than-ideal amount of oil, but it's not like the engine is grinding away completely dry?
Depends who and what evidence you believe, I know what I think after talking to industry specialists in this field. It's a bit like religion in a way when Ducati don't offer any proof or even comment when asked - it just is and if you disbelieve you are not worthy and your engine will go to the deepest chasms of hell
The previous owner of my 907ie had changed the belts according to the Workshop Manual, every 12,000 miles - no mention of 2 yearly then. Consequently when I bought the bike with 26,000 miles on it it was only on it's 3rd set of belts in 18 years. The set on it now are 3 years old and I'll be quite happy to leave them for another year as the bike is used regularly but only a 1,000 miles or so a year.
Oil is a fluid and so runs. When you stop your hot engine the oil is quite thin and flows very well, that is why we change the oil when it is warm. Should you start your engine again within 24 hours of stopping it then there is sure to still be a tiny amount of oil still coating the surfaces, but not much. Is that thin film able to lubricate till the full flow of oil gets there from the pump? I doubt it. The original study that I remember was by a chap called something like L J Setright (not sure of the spelling) and the period that he was measuring was well over 30 seconds, so we are talking 800 revs at least. On my aircraft engine Rotax 912S I have an oil pressure gauge which indicates pressure before the bearings and on start up I can watch how long it takes for the pressure to come up. You can do exactly what you want with your bike, but I don't intend to defend my actions any more, they are based on a lifetime of aircraft maintenance.
Thanks for that insight. So what special measures do you take with your aero-engine to counter this extra wear on start-up? I totally agree that there may be less than ideal lubrication during the warm-up period and I personally don't believe in starting the bike up in the garage over the winter: I start the bike up when I have the chance to go out on it. I remember LJK Setright - a very erudite, eccentric and knowledgeable motoring journalist who used to write for Car magazine. I once saw him out at the shops on Surbiton high-street wearing a deer-stalker, cape and carrying a cane, and my mate asked him (in a thick scouse accent): "Er , you wouldn't be Mr Setright by any chance would you?"To which the reply came: "Not by any 'chance' - for I am he." :smile:
So, start a laid up bike engine once a year would have a 12th of wear than one that is started up once a month.
The way that I get around the oil pressure thing on the aircraft is to turn the engine over on the starter with the mags switched off for 15 seconds. I still have to wait a while after start for the pressure to come up, but it helps. The aircraft engine is very different being a dry sump, but the oil is meant to say in the engine. It cannot really be compared to a Ducati engine as it has a very different purpose - 100hp at max revs constant, it also costs over £12,000 for just the engine. I love to play with engineering design, as can be seen from my blogs, and would love to design an external electric oil pump that could distribute the oil before starting the engine, but that would just add complexity. For now I will stick to using 5w40 oil as being thinner when cold, it will circulate quicker (on start) than a 10w40 or a 15w40.
Its not the longevity of the belt that is at question but the legal responsibility when it does snap. Exige is spot on the money, that yes the belts will last way longer than the service life, but you are factoring two essential things here that have been touched on: 1) Gates are an OEM supplier 2) The person fitting them must be competent. What does this mean in the real world? 1) Gates et al won't put to paper a claim which will effectively go contrary to the OEM. Were gates to produce their own aftermarket pattern part under their own brand as they do with car belts, then they can put whatever they want on it. However, were you to claim if it snapped, then it would be up to you to prove that it was not negligent workmanship that was the cause on the part of the fitter, or worn belt rollers etc etc. Gates as any Belt supplier, will make to a cost and a specification and a quality standard. Ducati will dictate at what cost and quality level they want to pay for. They wouldn't but they could for instance say as long as it survives 20000 miles or two years worth of durabilty cycle then thats all we need. And any ducati warranty or liability will be based guaranteed on you having the thing fitted by a ducati trained agent or dealership. I saw this at a merc dealership in action when some customer had probably had his merc serviced by his mates garage rather than pay merc prices. Whatever the reason he now needed merc to basically sort out the fuck up, perhaps it needed coding or some such. The owner took it to merc and tried the 'as long as its been serviced at a VAT registered garage its under warranty' line to try and get them to sort out the mess under warranty. Their answer was 1) was the bloke fitting it merc trained? 2) had the car been regularly serviced with a full service history? 3) Have genuine merc parts been used for the repairs and servicing? In effect, the law can say what it likes, but your mate clearly hasn't been trained by us, got the right equipment or the training from us, so clear off. They offered to honour warranty on the part only if it was faulty providing it was a genuine merc part. So, back on thread... Ducati probably know that those belts will go on for several years more than the service interval life stated. However, they have to balance that with making sure that owners service their bikes and get them checked over to make sure nothing else is wearing / warn out / fallen out of tolerance. So at the worst case, say two years, they know that oil will be changed, valve clearances checked, and any cautionary points identified. What no manufacturer can chance is some bloke coming back ten years later, not having seen the bike and the bloke banging on about a new engine under warranty because of a snapped belt. We used to see it with SLR and F1 owners who took their car to fred and his wonderful shed to modify or work on, and they did't know or couldn't be arsed to use proper parts and procedure, and then come running back to us when the car handled or ran like a bag of crap banging on about duty of care and brand obligation.
