Given there are standard bips for sale for 11k and sps's with price tags of 20k that sounds cheap. It’s not, but sounds it in comparison
Soz, forgot only you are allowed an opinion and those who agree with you. Weren’t you recently looking for a super light and we’re so picky even perfect bikes weren’t enough? Or I’m I mixing you up, as that clearly can’t be how you’d behave.
And telling the 150 from others saying they are an R… let’s not derail the guys thread with a petty squabble about you telling me what I should think and do. The info in this thread is incredible, and shows what level of knowledge is a viable of someone looks deep enough and asks many different people/institutions the same questions (as often the answers differ_
Arrgh I wrote the most comprehensive post I could - with evidence - links and BOLD text and still the myth of 500 and 150 is repeated and perpetuated! My brain can’t take it! Is this how religion works???? 700 MADE - info direct from Ducati! 373 internet with 2 unsold - probably kept by Ducati 325 bikes sold through dealer networks An unverified number of these were shipped as track bikes but often converted for road use. ALL are Official 996Rs and can be verified with Ducati against frame and engine numbers - there are as least 492 numbered bikes and the real truth could be that there were 500 as it’s a nice round number. That would mean that there are 200 unnumbered bikes - which are all mechanically identical. In my opinion they all have equal merit depending on what you value most. Some people will be attracted to the numbered bikes because of the plaque - but as a counter argument - there are more numbered bikes than unnumbered so that actually makes the unnumbered bikes rarer. The unnumbered bikes are supposed to have been sold with a paper certificate of authenticity. But regardless of whether a bike has a plaque or not - any buyer should confirm the Chassis and engine numbers with Ducati before purchase. Take this example And this is the numbered plate ….. Now compare this to a real plate. Plates can be removed, plates can be faked (sometimes with rather more effort than the Sheffield example) so ultimately unless everything is spot on and Ducati can confirm identity - buyer beware!
I can do you one better, not only was the bike above sold with a FAKE plate, it was a duplicate, of course, of another bike's plate and I have pics of both the real and fake for comparison: The REAL 0326 is a JPN market bike and the fake one was represented as a UK market.
Oh wow - how the hell did I miss that! So we can assume someone found the picture on the internet and just copied the number and put it on one of the unnumbered bikes! I would love to hear what the Bike Specialists Owner James Holland has to say about that!
They obviously don't have the basic expertise for such things as I doubt they would intentionally bare themselves open to litigation for malicious fraud. But hey, it's like the big auction houses always say; they don't verify authenticity, they only represent on behalf of the seller - so buyer beware. Even the person who made that fake plate couldn't be bothered with even the most basic details in his copy. So the person who made the plate knew it was fake/fraud, the seller probably knew it was fake, the dealer should have known it was fake, and the buyer didn't do even a Google image search of due diligence. Absolute fu*king excellence right there.
A quick word about this. For some time now (at least since 2019 when I did my first attempt) Ducati customer service in Bologna has refused to disclose any database information about a bike to anyone but the owner. In addition to the usual frame number, engine number and pics from all sides of the bike, they now also require a pic of an ID document and proof of ownership with matching name. So before purchase from a private seller, only the officially registered owner will be able to get authenticity info from Ducati, which will be sent by a simple email confirmation (I asked for an official certificate but they won’t send anything). Example below (from April 2022). Dear Mr. xxx, With reference to your request, after checking with our colleagues in the proper office, based on the images received and the information available in our DB, we kindly inform you that your bike is a Red 916 SP (Sport Production) Europe MY1996. Moreover, we kindly confirm you that the engine and chassis numbers match in our system. Furthermore, we kindly inform you that the 1996 version of the 916 SP is also known as the 916 SP3 and 497 bikes of this model were produced. Please note that this is not a limited series, but a numbered series. Lastly, we kindly inform you that you can always contact us through our official channels on our website: https://www.ducati.com/ww/en/company/customer-service We thank you for your attention and collaboration. We remain further at your disposal. Best regards, Carolina Ducati Support Ducati Motor Holding Spa Borgo Panigale – Italy www.ducati.com
Just reinforcing my view that without the plaque and paperwork (proper plaque, that looks like it’s aged too) I wouldn’t touch one. Too much hard work to derisk the purchase for me. You guys are doing an amazing job
On the subject of some of the final bits of unconfirmed information - I found this old advert - tiny cached image as the original ad had been removed. It was in German so I had to use Google translate - some of the translation isn’t quite right! It’s a shame the original ad has gone because the text says there was a copy of the email from Ducati confirming what it is, and the production numbers. Obviously this is a dealer so there’s the sales pitch to take into account - but it’s the first source to have confidently said that there were 500 numbered bikes and 200 not . We know that a large proportion of the 200 actually did get sold through the dealer network and put on the road so there’s some overstatement of the rarity. Proper race teams with the cash would have had the RS so I don’t think Ducati did sell a whole bunch of the unnumbered R’s to them. The other interesting statement is: The special thing about the 200 produced copies is that the engine was modified. The pistons were weighed prior to installation. The crankshaft/pistons/connecting rods finely balanced to create a perfect base. I have seen other descriptions mention blueprinting but this is a more detailed claim. What do you reckon @92GTA ? More sales BS or does it have some truth to it? Ducati 996R 700/ 700, the last example of this series produced. Hafer Bikes & Parts In an absolute lover's condition. Only 700 copies of this limited special model of the Ducati Tamburini generation were made worldwide. There were 500 pcs. with fork bridges - plaque produced for the road and 200pcs. for racing teams without triple clamps - badge but with the same street equipment. Of these 200 copies only a few found the normal way to Ducati dealers and were then sold to normal private customers. Ours is such a specimen. This can be understood very well on the Ducati computer excerpt as the first delivery. This generation is even rarer, since almost all of them have been destroyed on racetracks over the years. The special thing about the 200 produced copies is that the engine was modified. The pistons were weighed prior to installation. The crankshaft/pistons/connecting rods finely balanced to create a perfect base. We had the vehicle data checked by Ducati Customer Service and received a certificate - see pictures. It confirms that this is a genuine 996R where the frame fin. and engine number belong together. So it has matching numbers. It also shows that 700pcs. were produced and that our copy has the engine number 0700! It is therefore the last produced copy of this series. A 925 silver fork bridge badge was specially made for this unique model - see pictures. An investment for every connoisseur, since this mod. has increased in price continuously in recent years. It is the bike that no serious collection should be without. It was disassembled, serviced and cleaned down to the last detail by our Ducati specialists in countless hours of work with a lot of passion in order to put it in a dreamlike original condition. It is accident-free, runs like clockwork and comes from one owner. A box with the user manual and inspection booklet/record is included - see pictures. German first delivery / registration. The bike runs fantastic and the engine TOP, a pure collector's vehicle. Pictures say more than 1000 words - a dream bike! ((Since we just received an inquiry about the speedometer. No, the speedometer glass has no crack, perfect condition like the whole bike.)) tires / hi. NEW - timing belt NEW - oil / oil filter NEW - inspection / service NEW Valves have been adjusted / everything that works.
It's entirely possible the 200 may have been blueprinted and the 500 not, but I doubt it. I just haven't seen proof, in any form, one way or the other. For that matter, I don't even know what the original source article for this tidbit of info was back in 2001. From my perspective being the hobby for over 30 years and what I've seen, all of the engines would have been the same for a model run like this. For both warranty/supply purposes and the simple fact that it would be difficult to know exactly what engines were to go in what bikes after they left the assembly area. Sure they could have split the production lines up (these were all built at the same time, numbered and un-numbered keep in mind, although in random batches/groups) but that would have been a fair bit of effort. On an assembly line like this back then, a complete engine was grabbed and stuck into a bike frame and off it went. The engine number doesn't match the frame number, you have to send both to Ducati for them to verify they are both correct together as it was documented as having left the factory. So there would have been as good a chance of getting a blueprinted engine in a numbered bike as a non-blueprinted engine in a non-numbered bike - unless things were monitored and accounted for VERY carefully or the engines had big tags on them saying they are 996R II for example or on different colour racks or kept in a different area. Do you think the Italians were doing that at Ducati back in the late 1990s/early 2000 for what are literally in every other way (yeah aside from lights) the exact same bike? As an example, and I'm changing the numbers by a give or take of 5 or so to protect my privacy, I have a bike #0075-0085, the VIN ends in say 12673 but my engine number is 00142. Obviously then there was a fair number of engines produced before my bike was made and I'm sure a chunk of them went into non-numbered bikes built prior to my bike being built. If the 200 had all been built at once as even just the same group, I would believe it. But that's simply not what happened. So I think all the engines are the same, either all blue printed or not. I personally think they were all blueprinted in terms of having a balanced rotating assembly to wtihin a better spec than just a base bike (simply because these were the first batch of non-RS Testastretta engines Ducati ever made for a special limited run WSBK homologation bike), but to RS specs, absolutely not. JMHO. Also to add some context, these are all high-revving performance engines. A run of the mill production variance would be + or - 5 grams, the RS stuff to within 0.5 or less a gram. I'd expect the 996R rotating assembly parts are to within a couple grams. - Keep in mind that Ducati engines are over built slightly anyway, they are engineered to rev no problem another 1,000rpm or so above the limiter. I'd like to see more investigation done about the different P/N you found for the 996R and 996R II cylinder head. While I don't think this is a special head only the 200 got, for the same reasons as I mentioned above, I would bet it was simply a revision made during production an implemented seamlessly into the rest of the production of all the engines made after. Or maybe Ducati planned on a 2002 996R before calling it the 998R and already had 996R II P/Ns made up and not all of them were removed. This is actually a SUPER common practice among manufacturers. - Is the 996R II head P/N the same as the 998?
I listed this one sometime ago in post #18742 in the ebay thread section, i just spent sometime in the archives looking for it, but i didn't add any information when i flagged it up for the folks back then. as you say when you do click on the advert it's no longer there with is frustrating.
If the 200 were destined for race teams, at that time it may be they were different and did blueprint ready for racing from the go.
I seem to remember that once the 996r arrived at my local dealer, back in 2001, that some intense revision had to be carried out on the engine before handing over to the customer. not sure if this will be tied to the Pn change for the cylinder head as Im sure ( its a few years now) that this is what was changed..
Love all the commentary - makes a good read Just to add to the oddness of the Ducati numbering stuff, I have a 916 SP3 with plaque. Owned from new, verified, original spec, etc. The plaque number is 504. Always gets a discussion going given that 'records' state 497 SP3s were built...
That is a fantastic bit of info, thank you! When my friend ordered his Desmo new it was the same thing... and several times more for at least a year after delivery haha. We joked it spent more time at the dealership its first year than in his garage. UPDATE: I just checked all of the documentation for my 996R, the very first anything service related is at 421 miles on 12-12-2001. So if there was anything done upon arrival at the dealership, it was not accounted for in any records provided to the customer. I wonder if Ducati UK would have records from the dealership I could request.... hmmm.... It was sold new by Pro Twins in Surrey, I wonder if they have records...
Here you go. With the original spare key and fob from Bob Hill (now defunct!). I removed it off the yoke as a) I caught someone trying to prise it off and b) started a few debates I didn't need... They were only held on with glue so just keep it with the paper work.
Now that’s interesting. It looks absolutely genuine (hallmarks et all) and silver too. And yep, glued. But that number contradicts everything we know about production numbers given by Ducati. Have you ever tried and asked them (WTF)? May be it’s a very special order sold to someone special ?
